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Post by mdcamper on Sept 17, 2018 14:43:09 GMT -5
Hello,
It's a relativity close battle between Grand Design Reflection 150, KZ Durango, Winnebago Miini Plus and OR.
After pretty much seeing all of them at Hershey show this past week I am left with some questions about this particular brand that maybe you guys can shed some light on. TG 1) Water intrusion issues from the factory with previous years coaches? 2) Does any one know if the large slides on the 2019's are using better slide systems (non cable driven) I see that the closet slides are using a swchintech (sp?) type system. I would prefer non-cable slides. 3) For those that scaled their rigs, are the pin weights pretty close to factory "specs"? 4) Is OR, now that it's owned by THOR, still decent with handling warranty claim issues? 5) Overall would you purchase another KZ product?
JFYI, we are towing with a 2016 Nissan Titan XD Pro-4X gas. Almost 2100lbs of payload on the door sticker. We have already scaled it and know what we can and cannot do with payload and rear axle capacities. All of these coaches should fit the bill quite nicely when using a Reese goose box instead of the factory supplied 5th wheel pin box.
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer!
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Post by mdcamper on Sept 17, 2018 16:54:06 GMT -5
I should mention that KZ has changed the name of the Durango 1500s to Durango Half Ton. Saw them at the Hershey RV show last week.
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Post by Edd505 on Sept 17, 2018 19:57:55 GMT -5
Just looked at specs for the Durango 1500 6180-7000 LBS and GVWR 10,000-11,500. Look inside your door for the weight rating and I think you will be over or very close. I have a Durango Gold and the bedroom slides electric rack & pinion LCI the main slides are Hydraulic LCI You can go through here for more specs www.kz-rv.com/products/durango-1500-fifth-wheels/features.html
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Post by nvguy on Sept 17, 2018 21:53:55 GMT -5
I can answer a few, i don't have a model from the half ton series, but I would think lots of methods and materials are shared.
1: Water intrusion hasn't been an issue for our 2018 318RLT, During the rally I didn't hear about or experience any leaking - and we had rain. 2: All our slides are rack and pinion. 3: Haven't scaled, but I need to. 4: Can't say anything about OR 5: Yes, we would. We have found our Durango to be a good value. Make sure switching to a Goose box won't affect your frame warranty from Lippert.
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Post by mdcamper on Sept 17, 2018 21:55:46 GMT -5
Just looked at specs for the Durango 1500 6180-7000 LBS and GVWR 10,000-11,500. Look inside your door for the weight rating and I think you will be over or very close. I have a Durango Gold and the bedroom slides electric rack & pinion LCI the main slides are Hydraulic LCI You can go through here for more specs www.kz-rv.com/products/durango-1500-fifth-wheels/features.html
Thanks for your reply.
We will be close but should be OK. Our GCVWR is 17,700 and the truck is rated for a Pin weight of 1700lbs with a towing rating almost 12k lbs for a 5th wheel. I have a billion spreadsheets I have built out for each trailer and how it relates to our weight ratings etc. We only haul about 250lbs now (weighed) and I doubt we'll add too much more even with all of the extra room. In a worse case scenario we could easily take two vehicles and then I would have plenty of rear axle and payload left.
The 2019 Half Ton models have reduced listed pin weights from previous years. The 33 1/2 footer has a listed pin of 1285, others less, some a slight bit more etc.
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Post by mdcamper on Sept 17, 2018 21:58:01 GMT -5
I can answer a few, i don't have a model from the half ton series, but I would think lots of methods and materials are shared. 1: Water intrusion hasn't been an issue for our 2018 318RLT, During the rally I didn't hear about or experience any leaking - and we had rain. 2: All our slides are rack and pinion. 3: Haven't scaled, but I need to. 4: Can't say anything about OR 5: Yes, we would. We have found our Durango to be a good value. Make sure switching to a Goose box won't affect your frame warranty from Lippert.
Sorry I meant to type KZ not OR for warranty responses since THOR took over.
Thank you for your reply.
The Reese goosebox is the only Lippert approved goose hitch device since it's not an adaptor but a complete replacement for the pin box on the trailer.
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Post by Edd505 on Sept 17, 2018 22:14:55 GMT -5
Thanks for your reply.
We will be close but should be OK. Our GCVWR is 17,700 and the truck is rated for a Pin weight of 1700lbs with a towing rating almost 12k lbs for a 5th wheel. I have a billion spreadsheets I have built out for each trailer and how it relates to our weight ratings etc. We only haul about 250lbs now (weighed) and I doubt we'll add too much more even with all of the extra room. In a worse case scenario we could easily take two vehicles and then I would have plenty of rear axle and payload left.
The 2019 Half Ton models have reduced listed pin weights from previous years. The 33 1/2 footer has a listed pin of 1285, others less, some a slight bit more etc.
Remember these are dry weights they list, no water, propane or anything. GVWR is TV fuel full your & passenger weights, and tools you carry. Your weigh will include everything, food, drinks, dishes, toiletries, bedding, etc, not just chairs, grills, canopies, and a host of other things you will decide you need. It grows and adds up. Good luck making your selection.
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Post by nvguy on Sept 17, 2018 22:23:21 GMT -5
Gotcha, my opinion is most of the warranty issues seem to start with the dealer not delivering good customer service. And this just isn't KZ. At the rally, while it is a unique situation KZ seemed very interested in customer satisfaction. It seems that Thor is leaving KZ alone for the time being. Hopefully that hands off attitude continues. OK, good news about the goosebox, I haven't researched much in that area.
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Post by mdcamper on Sept 17, 2018 23:51:10 GMT -5
Thanks for your reply.
We will be close but should be OK. Our GCVWR is 17,700 and the truck is rated for a Pin weight of 1700lbs with a towing rating almost 12k lbs for a 5th wheel. I have a billion spreadsheets I have built out for each trailer and how it relates to our weight ratings etc. We only haul about 250lbs now (weighed) and I doubt we'll add too much more even with all of the extra room. In a worse case scenario we could easily take two vehicles and then I would have plenty of rear axle and payload left.
The 2019 Half Ton models have reduced listed pin weights from previous years. The 33 1/2 footer has a listed pin of 1285, others less, some a slight bit more etc.
Remember these are dry weights they list, no water, propane or anything. GVWR is TV fuel full your & passenger weights, and tools you carry. Your weigh will include everything, food, drinks, dishes, toiletries, bedding, etc, not just chairs, grills, canopies, and a host of other things you will decide you need. It grows and adds up. Good luck making your selection.Thank you. Yeah we are well aware of what is and is not included in the weights from the manufacture. We have already weighed our truck with everything and every body that it will have in it.
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Post by Chuck on Sept 18, 2018 11:14:57 GMT -5
Hello, It's a relativity close battle between Grand Design Reflection 150, KZ Durango, Winnebago Miini Plus and OR. After pretty much seeing all of them at Hershey show this past week I am left with some questions about this particular brand that maybe you guys can shed some light on. TG 1) Water intrusion issues from the factory with previous years coaches? 2) Does any one know if the large slides on the 2019's are using better slide systems (non cable driven) I see that the closet slides are using a swchintech (sp?) type system. I would prefer non-cable slides. 3) For those that scaled their rigs, are the pin weights pretty close to factory "specs"? 4) Is Kz, now that it's owned by THOR, still decent with handling warranty claim issues? 5) Overall would you purchase another KZ product? JFYI, we are towing with a 2016 Nissan Titan XD Pro-4X gas. Almost 2100lbs of payload on the door sticker. We have already scaled it and know what we can and cannot do with payload and rear axle capacities. All of these coaches should fit the bill quite nicely when using a Reese goose box instead of the factory supplied 5th wheel pin box. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer!
1) Water intrusion issues from the factory with previous years coaches?
Answer: If you read thought the form you will see were some owners have had problems water intrusion in older TT, but one never knows how the trailer was kept or cared for ... As well there has been reports of water intrusion in a few newer TT an one 5th wheel I have read, the 5th wheel already had roof problems (tear in roof)at the dealer ... Overall Kz TT that have been reported on this an other forms have had fewer problems that I have read about than other brands but that's just what I have read ...
2) Does any one know if the large slides on the 2019's are using better slide systems (non cable driven) I see that the closet slides are using a swchintech (sp?) type system. I would prefer non-cable slides.
Answer: in our Durango Gold G384RLT we have electric an Hydraulic ( ie LCI rack and pinion.)
3) For those that scaled their rigs, are the pin weights pretty close to factory "specs"?
Answer: Are rig was over by a few hundred pounds but not much (weighted unloaded UVW 12,415)
4) Is Kz, now that it's owned by THOR, still decent with handling warranty claim issues?
Answer: like others have stated Kz seems to beat to their own drum an warranty service from the factory has been outstanding an way over the top 150 percent, our dealer not so much ...
Being that dealers are independent of Kz there is not much Kz can do other than not renew contracts an wait till dealer
inventory is depleted an not re supply such ....
5) Overall would you purchase another KZ product?
We believe that Kz make a great product an care about their customer base an we would buy another unit from them in a minute if we were looking for another 5th wheel, they are solid an we believe you get the most bang for your buck with them an the stand behind their warranty without question ...
Safe Travels
Chuck
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Post by mdcamper on Oct 2, 2018 16:57:11 GMT -5
Here are the new "half ton" 5ers.
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Post by Edd505 on Oct 2, 2018 21:22:32 GMT -5
I like the 256RKT, wait I have a the 353RKT
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Post by mdcamper on Oct 3, 2018 10:00:43 GMT -5
I like the 256RKT, wait I have a the 353RKT Thats the one we would be getting for sure, but the dry pin weight is the highest of them all and has the highest pin weight percentage so the more you load it the more the pin weight will climb. Crazy considering the other one we are closely looking at is the 283 that is 33ft 10" and has over 1000lbs more UVW but the pin weight is only 1230.
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Post by Chuck on Oct 3, 2018 12:43:35 GMT -5
The floor plan in the 283 is allot like the floor plan in our 384RLT, really like it Per Kz I only see 70pds DHW between the two, yes the 256 is a very little bit heavier but has the same GVWR which means you have less storage weight...
The only difference I see is the 256 has an outside kitchen were the 283 dozen't, but the 283 has an island so I
would think maybe there is the difference of a few hundred pounds along with the Gray Water Cap. of 93 (difference 40gal)
which the 256 can carry as shown below an the eight inches length difference ...
I only see 910pds difference of the two trailers, but if you add the weight of the water (full tank) you get
1003 difference ...
What I see is that there is a notion on the bottom of the Spec's about adding features, as we all know adding slide toppers will add weight, not sure how much weight but I would guess at the very least a few hundred pounds .... As stated then add cloths, beding, food, camping chairs etc you will get right up there, but basic figures these trailer are very, very close ...
I would really, really like to see these two trailers weight on a platform scale, I'm thinking they might just be a small push between the two an the gray water cap an the 8 inches of length being the difference overall ...
D283RLT D256RKT UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* 8,750 UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* 9,170(difference 420pds) Dry Hitch Weight* 1,230 Dry Hitch Weight* 1,320 (difference 70pds) Dry Axle Weight* 7,520 Dry Axle Weight* 7,850 (difference 400pds) NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) 1,750 NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) 1,330 (difference 420pds) GVWR 10,500 GVWR 10,500 Exterior Height (with A/C) 12'1" Exterior Height (with A/C) 12' 1" Exterior Width 96" Exterior Width 96" Exterior Length** 33'10" Exterior Length** 33' 2" (difference of 8") Refrigerator (Cubic Feet) 8 Refrigerator (Cubic Feet) 8 Water Heater Cap. 6 Water Heater Cap 6 Waste Water Cap. (Gal.) 53 Waste Water Cap. (Gal.) 53 Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.) Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.) Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.) Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.) Including Water Heater 61 Including Water Heater 61 Gray Water Cap. (Gal.) 53 Gray Water Cap. (Gal.) 93 (difference 40gal) 1/2 Bath Cap. (Gal.) 60 1/2 Bath Cap. (Gal.) 60 LP Gas Cap. (Lbs.) 60 LP Gas Cap. (Lbs.) 60 Furnace BTUs (1,000s) 35 Furnace BTUs (1,000s) 35 Tire Size 16" Tire Size 16" Awning 14' Awning 14' *This weight reflects the rolling average unit weight for each model. Your trailer weight will vary according to optional equipment. **Exterior length is measured from center of hitch pin to rear wall.
All numbers were off the Kz web page under Spec's an were copied an pasted into a word pad for the match ...
Safe travels
Chuck
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Post by mdcamper on Oct 4, 2018 1:23:34 GMT -5
The floor plan in the 283 is allot like the floor plan in our 384RLT, really like it Per Kz I only see 70pds DHW between the two, yes the 256 is a very little bit heavier but has the same GVWR which means you have less storage weight...
The only difference I see is the 256 has an outside kitchen were the 283 dozen't, but the 283 has an island so I
would think maybe there is the difference of a few hundred pounds along with the Gray Water Cap. of 93 (difference 40gal)
which the 256 can carry as shown below an the eight inches length difference ...
I only see 910pds difference of the two trailers, but if you add the weight of the water (full tank) you get
1003 difference ...
What I see is that there is a notion on the bottom of the Spec's about adding features, as we all know adding slide toppers will add weight, not sure how much weight but I would guess at the very least a few hundred pounds .... As stated then add cloths, beding, food, camping chairs etc you will get right up there, but basic figures these trailer are very, very close ...
I would really, really like to see these two trailers weight on a platform scale, I'm thinking they might just be a small push between the two an the gray water cap an the 8 inches of length being the difference overall ...
D283RLT D256RKT UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* 8,750 UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight)* 9,170(difference 420pds) Dry Hitch Weight* 1,230 Dry Hitch Weight* 1,320 (difference 70pds) Dry Axle Weight* 7,520 Dry Axle Weight* 7,850 (difference 400pds) NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) 1,750 NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) 1,330 (difference 420pds) GVWR 10,500 GVWR 10,500 Exterior Height (with A/C) 12'1" Exterior Height (with A/C) 12' 1" Exterior Width 96" Exterior Width 96" Exterior Length** 33'10" Exterior Length** 33' 2" (difference of 8") Refrigerator (Cubic Feet) 8 Refrigerator (Cubic Feet) 8 Water Heater Cap. 6 Water Heater Cap 6 Waste Water Cap. (Gal.) 53 Waste Water Cap. (Gal.) 53 Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.) Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.) Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.) Fresh Water Cap. (Gal.) Including Water Heater 61 Including Water Heater 61 Gray Water Cap. (Gal.) 53 Gray Water Cap. (Gal.) 93 (difference 40gal) 1/2 Bath Cap. (Gal.) 60 1/2 Bath Cap. (Gal.) 60 LP Gas Cap. (Lbs.) 60 LP Gas Cap. (Lbs.) 60 Furnace BTUs (1,000s) 35 Furnace BTUs (1,000s) 35 Tire Size 16" Tire Size 16" Awning 14' Awning 14' *This weight reflects the rolling average unit weight for each model. Your trailer weight will vary according to optional equipment. **Exterior length is measured from center of hitch pin to rear wall.
All numbers were off the Kz web page under Spec's an were copied an pasted into a word pad for the match ...
Safe travels
Chuck
Thanks Chuck. My wife and I actually took yet another trip to look at these. LOL along with Flagstaff we had on our list. But now it's down to the 250RES, the 283RLT and the 271RLD (which is basically the 283 but without the bedroom closet slide) I figure this will even further reduce the UVW and pin weight but there are no specs for this as of yet. If this is the case we may wait for this one since it's almost gotta be even lighter right? LOL The only others on our short list are the grand design 295RL and the Winnebago 27RLTS But if I was forced to pick tonight it would be the 283 or the 271. The only thing holding me back is the length. about 4 ft longer then I was planning on when I started this journey. LOL
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Post by Chuck on Oct 4, 2018 11:22:52 GMT -5
mdcamper 4ft is not a big deal, as one of the other members of the form found out, he was really scared he couldn't navigate a longer trailer an found such to be just as easy as he older one which was 3ft shorter I still think along with others we will all agree you get more bang for your buck with Kz, don't be fooled by what I call bling or glamor of trailers, look deeper an you will really see that Kz's have the functionality along with a little bit of glamor but not over the top were the others try to fool you with just the opposite ... As well I don't think the other can beat the 2 year warranty, it may say limited as many of use know it's far from that an Kz stands behind their product 150 percent while other give you a 1 year warranty so they an try to wiggle out of that per a number of forms .... An of course it's also all about the dealer, the factory can stand behind the product 150 percent, but the dealer can act as if they will give you great service during the sale an you later fined that they were talking out both sides of there month Ugh !!! So be very careful when selecting an dealer of any brand no matter what brand it is !!!! Safe Travels Chuck
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Post by mdcamper on Oct 4, 2018 14:48:19 GMT -5
mdcamper 4ft is not a big deal, as one of the other members of the form found out, he was really scared he couldn't navigate a longer trailer an found such to be just as easy as he older one which was 3ft shorter I still think along with others we will all agree you get more bang for your buck with Kz, don't be fooled by what I call bling or glamor of trailers, look deeper an you will really see that Kz's have the functionality along with a little bit of glamor but not over the top were the others try to fool you with just the opposite ... As well I don't think the other can beat the 3 year warranty, it may say limited as many of use know it's far from that an Kz stands behind their product 150 percent while other give you a 1 year warranty so they an try to wiggle out of that per a number of forms .... An of course it's also all about the dealer, the factory can stand behind the product 150 percent, but the dealer can act as if they will give you great service during the sale an you later fined that they were talking out both sides of there month Ugh !!! So be very careful when selecting an dealer of any brand no matter what brand it is !!!! Safe Travels Chuck Thanks again!
I have looked extensively at many other manufactures. I think KZ does a good job "behind the scenes" with construction. I like what I see. It's better then open range and probably better then Winnebago - The one we are interested in did not look to great on the fit and finish in the basement area (horrible caulk job, ducting and wires hanging down etc.) That is really a sticking point for me on the Winni for sure.
I think we have about made up our minds. The D271RLD as I said above, the same as the 283 but no bedroom closet slide. I finally got some numbers form KZ on their first build and with a second AC unit and all of the other stuff we wanted it has a pin weight of 1190 and UVW of 8670. If my calculations are close to being right we are good on payload and rear axle. So much so I may not even have to take stuff off of our truck!
It will certainly be a different experience from towing our 20ft hybrid (single axle) I am still a bit nervous about that.
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Post by rvdude on Oct 4, 2018 17:55:12 GMT -5
Just take it nice and easy, don't get in a hurry, and I think you will be fine with the longer trailer. I started with a pop up years ago, then went to a 22 foot trailer, and up to a 29 foot trailer, then a 35 foot trailer, and now a 40 foot fifth wheel. It's bigger and longer than the others, but it tows great and is not a problem. I think you will be just fine.
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Post by mdcamper on Oct 4, 2018 19:34:31 GMT -5
Thank you rvdude!
Anyone know if the factory solar package is worth the extra cost? I realize I could add solar at any time but it might be handy to have at least one 160watt panel on the roof to start.
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Post by Edd505 on Oct 4, 2018 19:53:04 GMT -5
I don't have the solar, but why not have the prewired even if you are just considering. I think they all come out wired for satellite, will that get used on all? Doubtful.
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