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Post by esox07 on Jul 1, 2017 16:04:44 GMT -5
When I am not using any water, the water pump kicks on every 4 or 5 minutes and runs for just a few seconds and stops again. I cannot see any leaking water any where. Is this normal for the water system to slowly lose pressure or is this a sign of a problem? If so, what should I check. Like I said, I cannot fine any leaking water anywhere.
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Post by lynnmor on Jul 1, 2017 17:55:49 GMT -5
The check valve in the pump is leaking back into the tank. Clean or replace as needed.
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Post by esox07 on Jul 1, 2017 18:08:15 GMT -5
Do you mean the check valve or the whole pump? If the check valve, where do I look for parts?
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Post by lynnmor on Jul 1, 2017 18:29:13 GMT -5
Find the brand and model number on the pump. Search for that model and see what is available. Sometimes just disassembly and cleaning out debris is enough.
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Post by esox07 on Jul 1, 2017 18:51:30 GMT -5
lynnmor:
Will do. I will pull it and take it apart when I get a chance and see if I can find a problem with it. If not, I will probably look for a new one.
Thanks for the help.
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Post by Edd505 on Jul 2, 2017 12:16:07 GMT -5
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Post by esox07 on Jul 2, 2017 12:58:57 GMT -5
Certainly, I will look for a repair kit. However, if not, a replacement won't be a total loss. I camp at a lot of sites that don't have water hookups which forces me to use the onboard water and pump. But, it is a small trailer with a small tank and if we stay more than two nights or so, we either have to scrimp on the water or wind up running out. So, I figure I could keep the old pump, which still technically works and use it to siphon water from a portable tank into the trailer holding tank. This allows us basically endless water supply without having to hook up and pull the trailer to a water point to fill up. I had been gravity siphoning in the past, but that requires positioning the portable tank up higher than the holding tank and then takes forever. Using a water pump to transfer water would solve those issues. But, my first option is a repair with a kit. I am just about to research a repair kit. Anyway, before I pull the pump, I plan to run it in the trailer for an afternoon to let it pressurize the lines and then let it cycle on and off during the day. While the trailer is parked on my driveway, I will be able to check for water dripping under the trailer which would tell me it is a leak in the lines between the pump and outlets. Otherwise, I will consider it a backflow problem and likely check valve (diaphram) problem inside the pump allowing water to leak back through the pump back into the holding tank.
It is funny, because the cycling seems to be different every time. Sometimes it will stay off for 10 minutes and run for 10 seconds. Sometimes it is only 4 or 5 minutes between cycling. Today, it was only a minute between cycling but only ran for a few seconds each cycle.
Anyway, I checked all the easily accessible water lines and joints that I could get to and didn't feel or see any leaking while the system was pressurized. But, I figure if I let it run and stay pressurized for an afternoon, it will eventually show a wet spot some where on the drive way underneath the camper if it is leaking from a water line. If not, I think I can assume the issue is inside the water pump and it is leaking back to the holding tank. The problem is right now is that it just rained and the whole driveway is wet right now. I will have to wait to do the leak test.
Seems logical to me, What say you?
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Post by lynnmor on Jul 2, 2017 14:41:22 GMT -5
With the varying cycle times there may be air in the system. Run each and every faucet till all air is purged. There is to be an air pocket in the water heater and that may be lost, so drain it and refill.
There is a way to rig your current pump to draw water from an outside container, no additional pump, wires and switches needed. First get the current problem fixed and then we can discuss this setup.
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Post by esox07 on Jul 2, 2017 15:52:25 GMT -5
Thanks. At this point, I am letting the driveway completely dry up, then I will purge and drain the system and then restart the pump. After that, I can leave check for cycling and if so, I will leave it on and then be able to check for leaking under the trailer later on. If no cycling and no leaking over night, I will assume it is an internal pump issue and proceed from there.
Then, as you say, maybe you can enlighten me on the process for having my camper pump draw water from an external tank. Thanks, Bruce
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Post by esox07 on Jul 2, 2017 21:57:33 GMT -5
OK, here is the latest. I drained the system, drained the hot water heater, opened the cold and hot drain valves and ran the water outlets dry. Then I refilled everything and ran the taps until I got no more sputtering. I still get the pump cycling on after a couple minutes for just a few seconds at a time. But, what I have come to realize after letting it set and pump turned on, is that it stops cycling. At least it cycles much less frequent. After I let it sit for an hour or two, I went back out and sat in the trailer and listed for about 5 minutes or so. The pump never cycled. So, I turned on the tap and let it run a few seconds. When I shut it off, the pump shut off, but then cycled on after about a minute. I waited another minute or so and it cycled again. So, it seems that the problem may be that after opening a tap, the pump is actually shutting off before the lines are fully pressurize and then has to cycle a few more quick times to fully pressurize before it quits cycling for good. I hope that I made sense there. Any thoughts on this new info???
Oh, and after a few hours, I didn't see any water spots under the trailer. I will be leaving it sit with the pump energized over night and will go out and look again for water spots under the trailer as well as whether the pump cycles or not after sitting for many hours without use.
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Post by esox07 on Jul 3, 2017 21:07:15 GMT -5
another update. There is a small hex screw on the pump and the user instructions stated to turn it 1/4 turn until the pump quits cycling. I wound up turning it about a full turn. If seems the pump runs a bit stronger (more pressure) now and after running water it seems to only cycle one more time about 10 seconds later for just a few seconds and then that is it. I can live with that. I left the pump energized almost 24 hours and when I checked it, it wasn't cycling. I think it just had to cycle a few more times to get it to full pressure before shutting off for good. Now it seems to just do it one time for a few seconds. Which I can live with. No water that I can find inside or outside the camper after almost 24 hrs so I ruled out a leak. If it gets worse again, I will pull the pump and open it up and take a look, but I am crossing my fingers that the problem is solved at this point.
lynmoor: I could still use a block of instruction for using my existing water pump to siphon water from an external water tank into my trailer tank.
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Post by lynnmor on Jul 4, 2017 8:55:10 GMT -5
lynmoor: I could still use a block of instruction for using my existing water pump to siphon water from an external water tank into my trailer tank. PM sent, let me know if you have any questions.
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Post by esox07 on Jul 4, 2017 9:29:18 GMT -5
lynmoor, I think you should post that mod on the forum. There could be others that would benefit from that setup.
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Post by johnr on Jul 5, 2017 6:32:09 GMT -5
I'd be interested in the siphon mod. Presently I have a second water pump that I use to pump water to my holding tank where the main pump draws from.
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Post by lynnmor on Jul 5, 2017 8:41:37 GMT -5
Here is my modification to draw water in. It looks complicated but the only three things necessary are the tee with hose clamps after the water intake where I connected the winterizing hose, the check valve after the tee with some hose clamps and the removal of the check valve within the water intake. The red valve is the factory valve for winterizing. In my case everything was in one place and easy to do. If you have to fish hoses, it might not be as simple. Having posted this on other forums, I have yet to see anyone do this simple modification. The rolling 8 gallon water container is modified with a dip tube made from common plumbing supplies. While any sort of container can be used, this is sanitary and connects to the city water port via a short garden hose. Other modifications are in the diagram. The added valve and metering valve (not in this diagram) is a water saving measure that sends water back to the tank instead of wasting it till hot water reaches the bathroom. Just think, almost instant hot water for your shower. It also serves as a method of heating the fresh water tank in freezing weather. I need to update my diagram on PhotoBucket to show the metering valve.
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Post by esox07 on Oct 1, 2018 13:30:43 GMT -5
Guys/gals, I have come to decide the problem is the check valve in the water pump. I realized that when hooked to city water, the fresh water tank slowly fills with water. (a couple days to fill the 20 gal tank). The only thing in my Sportsmen 19BH between the city water line and the fresh water tank is the water pump. So, in addition to losing pressure when running on tank water, it is allowing water to back feed into the fresh water tank when hooked to city water. That kind of cements my thinking that it is the water pump and not a leak in the water lines causing the pump to cycle when water is not being used.
So, my next question is: What water pump do I buy to replace it? Can I get any 12v RV water pump or are there certain specs that I need to be aware of? I guess I could pull my old one and try to find a replacement, but I suspect the exact model probably isn't even being manufactured any more. What do you all suggest?
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Post by lynnmor on Oct 1, 2018 13:41:57 GMT -5
Pretty much any RV type water pump will work.
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Post by esox07 on Oct 1, 2018 13:49:12 GMT -5
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Post by Edd505 on Oct 1, 2018 19:09:13 GMT -5
OK lynnmor, what type clamps are you using on the white line left side of the check valve? I see a gear clamp on the rt and what looks like a PEX to the left. I had a leak on a hose like that and 1/2 PEX doesn't fit well over the hose. I forced one on but I'm not happy with the connection.
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Post by nvguy on Oct 1, 2018 22:11:00 GMT -5
The 50 PSI might be an issue only because the KZ owners manual recommends a pressure regulator of 45 PSI when connecting to an external water source, so i would stick with a 40 PSI replacement pump. But I tend towards caution....
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