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Post by goodvibes on Apr 14, 2021 9:14:39 GMT -5
I grew up in TTs with my parents, and we have owned TTs for most of our adult life. But 5-6 years ago, when my kids hit that award high school age, and wanted less and less to do with their parents, we sold our TT. Now that the kids are no longer kids, I am looking for something for my wife and I. When we had TTs before, they were old and ragged. In the mean time, the wife has become accustomed to condo/hotel travel. So to get her on board, I have to find an affordable rolling Marriot.  We always had bumper pulls, but I think I want to go small 5th wheel. I have spent countless hours in analysis paralysis on the web. And visited the BIG nation wide dealerships, the mid size regional ones, and the tiny ones. I have never seen nor heard of KZ. Until the other day, was watching one of the big YouTubers vids. He was recognized by someone in the CG. They invited him to tour their RV. it was KZ, and it was very nice. So after finding the web site. The Durango HT 250 is on the top of my list out of all of the others. The 230 is close. The closest dealer is a loooooooooong ways away. But in the chinacrud world they don't have either model, and don't really have much of anything on their website. So a few questions. I don't see anything on the KZ website about construction. Many brands promote their wall and roof systems as the greatest thing since man canned beer. But I don't see ANY build info from KZ. Where can I find some build info? |
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Post by laknox on Apr 14, 2021 10:11:36 GMT -5
Can't speak to construction, but, holy crap! "Half ton" FWs with W/D prep?! Never seen that before!
Lyle
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Post by chulavista on Apr 14, 2021 11:11:46 GMT -5
I grew up in TTs with my parents, and we have owned TTs for most of our adult life. But 5-6 years ago, when my kids hit that award high school age, and wanted less and less to do with their parents, we sold our TT. Now that the kids are no longer kids, I am looking for something for my wife and I. When we had TTs before, they were old and ragged. In the mean time, the wife has become accustomed to condo/hotel travel. So to get her on board, I have to find an affordable rolling Marriot. We always had bumper pulls, but I think I want to go small 5th wheel. I have spent countless hours in analysis paralysis on the web. And visited the BIG nation wide dealerships, the mid size regional ones, and the tiny ones. I have never seen nor heard of KZ. Until the other day, was watching one of the big YouTubers vids. He was recognized by someone in the CG. They invited him to tour their RV. it was KZ, and it was very nice. So after finding the web site. The Durango HT 250 is on the top of my list out of all of the others. The 230 is close. The closest dealer is a loooooooooong ways away. But in the chinacrud world they don't have either model, and don't really have much of anything on their website. So a few questions. I don't see anything on the KZ website about construction. Many brands promote their wall and roof systems as the greatest thing since man canned beer. But I don't see ANY build info from KZ. Where can I find some build info? Hello and welcome!! Well....here's the same song and dance you see on other mfg's sites...it is on K-Z's website as well, so I attached a link. www.kz-rv.com/products/durango-half-ton-fifth-wheels/construction.htmlNone of them go very deep in detail, it might take more digging to find that info. Good luck! |
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Post by goodvibes on Apr 14, 2021 11:26:50 GMT -5
Thanks. Somehow I missed that. But something like that what I was looking for |
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Post by Chuck on Apr 23, 2021 20:03:23 GMT -5
goodvibes Welcome to the Kz form  There are Many owners on this form that have experienced good an bad in regards to Kz trailers big an small, from TT up to the full time living large 5th wheels ... If you tour their factory as I have you will see that it pretty clean (at least the 5th wheel line) an they more or less have a dozen or so trailers being built at one time this it not a big production line like some MFG's ... Do they make mistake, yes they are not perfect, do they back up their mistakes, from a MFG point of view yes for the 1st two years on most trailers ... But saying this the dealers are for the most part the weak link in the chain. good dealer, good product, bad dealer bad product even if you paid $150k for a unit ... I still believe for the price point Kz make a pretty good product, they for the most part are solid, but again they do make mistakes like anything they a human ... Safe Travels Chuck |
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Post by Edd505 on Apr 25, 2021 19:39:09 GMT -5
You might find this useful when looking at 5W's
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Post by greydog on Nov 27, 2021 12:10:44 GMT -5
I can fill in the build info for most Thor products I have seen since I've been using my KZ.
"Our primary tool is an air stapler and we use a lot of staples; unless we are running low and might have to take the trouble to re-fill, then we use fewer staples. We'll use screws where we must but don't worry too much as to where they go. A screw into paneling is expected to hold up a cupboard. If it won't, we'll add another screw and, maybe, some staples.
We hire the local grade school kids to caulk the roof and encourage them to glop plenty on. If it doesn't quite go where they want, they can push it into place with their foot; the tracks add character to the roof. We source our accessories from the lowest bidder. If the owner doesn't notice an issue, it's not an issue! In the event of a failure, we can blame the manufacturer and tell the customer to contact them. Given the flight-by-night status of many of these suppliers, the customer will get to spend dome real quality time with his computer or telephone.
The workers have the option of using squares and levels but we don't really care. If it looks level, it probably is level! A lot of construction flaws can be countered by simply adding some pretty, blue, LED lighting.
Axles and springs are tested rigorously by driving across a level parking lot; forward and back.
Debris from construction is left inside the walls, where it adds R value, or brushed in the furnace ducts for later distribution throughout the unit. Larger pieces can be put into the waste tanks so the owner can deal with them later."
I'm not sure that any of this is unique to Thor or KZ. At every gathering, the main topic of conversation is usually all the things wrong with each new trailer. GD
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Post by Soleman on Nov 27, 2021 18:24:20 GMT -5
Ha!
The thing about humor is that it's mostly funny when it's true and bites a little bit!
Though we know in some cases your statements are true we still strive for the glass half full psychology?
I have personally completed many re-gluing & stapling tasks along with some other more involved repairs, however I've learned to expect them and KZ is not the only product I've ever owned.
I can't disagree with you but thanks for the chuckle!
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Post by greydog on Nov 27, 2021 19:41:15 GMT -5
Truly, most RV's seem to come as kits. Our first trip with our trailer was highlighted by the coat rack ending up on the floor of the closet. I rebuilt that and you could chin yourself on it. When I noticed the bottom of the overhead cupboard in the bedroom was about to fall out, I fixed that and it was fine. When the bed collapsed into the storage area, taking the bottom of the closets with it, I framed that in so it would support an angus steer. Item after item was addressed, by myself, by my dealer, and by KZ and Lippert; until the trailer was looking pretty good. The window dressings were coming loose but I had a plan for them. The issues I encountered were, by no means, confined to KZ products; everyone had things to fix. My roof never came loose, my plumbing never leaked, my lights always worked. Not everyone could say the same.
I bent two pairs of axles and, when I offered to pay the difference for an upgrade, Lippert did it for free. It took some wrangling but they came through. When I called because my awning control module quit, they sent a new one to the place where I was camped. It's safe to say, there was plenty of good mixed in with the bad. GD
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Post by wahoo on Nov 29, 2021 10:40:26 GMT -5
I can fill in the build info for most Thor products I have seen since I've been using my KZ. "Our primary tool is an air stapler and we use a lot of staples; unless we are running low and might have to take the trouble to re-fill, then we use fewer staples. We'll use screws where we must but don't worry too much as to where they go. A screw into paneling is expected to hold up a cupboard. If it won't, we'll add another screw and, maybe, some staples. We hire the local grade school kids to caulk the roof and encourage them to glop plenty on. If it doesn't quite go where they want, they can push it into place with their foot; the tracks add character to the roof. We source our accessories from the lowest bidder. If the owner doesn't notice an issue, it's not an issue! In the event of a failure, we can blame the manufacturer and tell the customer to contact them. Given the flight-by-night status of many of these suppliers, the customer will get to spend dome real quality time with his computer or telephone. The workers have the option of using squares and levels but we don't really care. If it looks level, it probably is level! A lot of construction flaws can be countered by simply adding some pretty, blue, LED lighting. Axles and springs are tested rigorously by driving across a level parking lot; forward and back. Debris from construction is left inside the walls, where it adds R value, or brushed in the furnace ducts for later distribution throughout the unit. Larger pieces can be put into the waste tanks so the owner can deal with them later." I'm not sure that any of this is unique to Thor or KZ. At every gathering, the main topic of conversation is usually all the things wrong with each new trailer. GD Accuracy in reporting here! To achieve higher customer satisfaction, we need to lower expectations:) That said, the folks at KZ have been very responsive to any questions or advice I have needed. On my second one and I came back to the brand because of the great experience in using and traveling in the first. |
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Post by laknox on Nov 29, 2021 12:08:16 GMT -5
I can fill in the build info for most Thor products I have seen since I've been using my KZ. "Our primary tool is an air stapler and we use a lot of staples; unless we are running low and might have to take the trouble to re-fill, then we use fewer staples. We'll use screws where we must but don't worry too much as to where they go. A screw into paneling is expected to hold up a cupboard. If it won't, we'll add another screw and, maybe, some staples. We hire the local grade school kids to caulk the roof and encourage them to glop plenty on. If it doesn't quite go where they want, they can push it into place with their foot; the tracks add character to the roof. We source our accessories from the lowest bidder. If the owner doesn't notice an issue, it's not an issue! In the event of a failure, we can blame the manufacturer and tell the customer to contact them. Given the flight-by-night status of many of these suppliers, the customer will get to spend dome real quality time with his computer or telephone. The workers have the option of using squares and levels but we don't really care. If it looks level, it probably is level! A lot of construction flaws can be countered by simply adding some pretty, blue, LED lighting. Axles and springs are tested rigorously by driving across a level parking lot; forward and back. Debris from construction is left inside the walls, where it adds R value, or brushed in the furnace ducts for later distribution throughout the unit. Larger pieces can be put into the waste tanks so the owner can deal with them later." I'm not sure that any of this is unique to Thor or KZ. At every gathering, the main topic of conversation is usually all the things wrong with each new trailer. GD I'd be LMAO if it weren't so true!  I remember on RV.net someone posting that a Forest River (IIRC) owner's manual actually stated that it is NORMAL that you might see small amounts of construction debris =under= the roof membrane! Really?! They can't take the time to use an air gun to blow the F'n sawdust/screws/other crap off the roof before they lay down the membrane?! I think the OP in that case was complaining about some staples, nails or screws backing out and poking up under the membrane, and was worried about penetration. People were telling the OP to put a patch of Eternabond over the spot(s) and not worry too much about it, which is probably the best solution. Lyle |
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Post by jfspry58 on Dec 13, 2021 10:53:11 GMT -5
I'd be LMAO if it weren't so true! I remember on RV.net someone posting that a Forest River (IIRC) owner's manual actually stated that it is NORMAL that you might see small amounts of construction debris =under= the roof membrane! Really?! They can't take the time to use an air gun to blow the F'n sawdust/screws/other crap off the roof before they lay down the membrane?! I think the OP in that case was complaining about some staples, nails or screws backing out and poking up under the membrane, and was worried about penetration. People were telling the OP to put a patch of Eternabond over the spot(s) and not worry too much about it, which is probably the best solution. Lyle Wow! Since my last 5er was a Forest River product I still occasionally read their forum and it definitely makes for interesting reading. I read last summer about a guy who bought a brand new Cardinal somewhere in Denver, took it home and loaded it for his first trip, then headed west down I-70. When he reached his first stop he found the entire picture window assembly had fallen out of the back end somewhere along the way. Wouldn’t you like to have been following him closely when that happened? And that’s one of their top-of-the-line models! Jay |
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Post by laknox on Dec 13, 2021 13:42:52 GMT -5
I'd be LMAO if it weren't so true! I remember on RV.net someone posting that a Forest River (IIRC) owner's manual actually stated that it is NORMAL that you might see small amounts of construction debris =under= the roof membrane! Really?! They can't take the time to use an air gun to blow the F'n sawdust/screws/other crap off the roof before they lay down the membrane?! I think the OP in that case was complaining about some staples, nails or screws backing out and poking up under the membrane, and was worried about penetration. People were telling the OP to put a patch of Eternabond over the spot(s) and not worry too much about it, which is probably the best solution. Lyle Wow! Since my last 5er was a Forest River product I still occasionally read their forum and it definitely makes for interesting reading. I read last summer about a guy who bought a brand new Cardinal somewhere in Denver, took it home and loaded it for his first trip, then headed west down I-70. When he reached his first stop he found the entire picture window assembly had fallen out of the back end somewhere along the way. Wouldn’t you like to have been following him closely when that happened? And that’s one of their top-of-the-line models! Jay I think I'd head right back home, unload, then take it back to the stealer and demand a refund. If something THAT basic falls out, what about the more complicated stuff?! If you see any updates, please let us know. Lyle |
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Post by jfspry58 on Dec 13, 2021 14:01:36 GMT -5
Wow! Since my last 5er was a Forest River product I still occasionally read their forum and it definitely makes for interesting reading. I read last summer about a guy who bought a brand new Cardinal somewhere in Denver, took it home and loaded it for his first trip, then headed west down I-70. When he reached his first stop he found the entire picture window assembly had fallen out of the back end somewhere along the way. Wouldn’t you like to have been following him closely when that happened? And that’s one of their top-of-the-line models! Jay I think I'd head right back home, unload, then take it back to the stealer and demand a refund. If something THAT basic falls out, what about the more complicated stuff?! If you see any updates, please let us know. Lyle Totally agree Lyle. The dealer would have gotten that one back so fast it would make his head spin! But… I still feel for the poor guy that had to change his pants after dodging a flying 3x6 chunk of glass while navigating mountain traffic! 😁😂🤣 If I see anything new on it I’ll be sure and pass it on. Jay |
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Post by laknox on Dec 13, 2021 14:51:58 GMT -5
I think I'd head right back home, unload, then take it back to the stealer and demand a refund. If something THAT basic falls out, what about the more complicated stuff?! If you see any updates, please let us know. Lyle Totally agree Lyle. The dealer would have gotten that one back so fast it would make his head spin! But… I still feel for the poor guy that had to change his pants after dodging a flying 3x6 chunk of glass while navigating mountain traffic! 😁😂🤣 If I see anything new on it I’ll be sure and pass it on. Jay If it =had= hit someone, can you imagine the fun that person's insurance company would have had in dealing with Forest River? :-) Lyle |
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Post by nvguy on Dec 13, 2021 21:58:58 GMT -5
The funny part of this is Forest River will probably deny warranty because the dealer can't return the failed window.
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Post by laknox on Dec 14, 2021 11:45:48 GMT -5
The funny part of this is Forest River will probably deny warranty because the dealer can't return the failed window. Oh, that would be a can of worms! Lyle |
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Post by Chuck on Dec 14, 2021 20:28:12 GMT -5
Well as some of you Know, I've had to replace three floors in my 2017 G384RLT, I still can't figure
out why I had water damage to slide walls that were not exposed to the out side most of it life ...
As posted on here the slide wall had de lamination on the inside below the window an outside
below the window ... Damage below the bedroom slide under the slide along with the floor dropping
under the kitchen slide ...
Dealer stated I should have checked the seals more often, I said well you said seals were ok three
different years on inspections, Kz said seals were ok at three different rallies so how did I get
water damage to the tune of 7k if everyone one said seals were good Ugh !!!!!
The other question I have how do you check for bad seals on frameless windows unless you see water
dripping inside, I saw none of this to the de-lamination showed it's ugly head ....
Chuck
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Post by Edd505 on Dec 14, 2021 23:12:19 GMT -5
Got the valances out of the 5W now and found multi different screws holding them, different sizes, lengths, and even found some black. Guess what ever they had in their pockets. Oh and the post about staples by greydog, they must have used them putting the valances together had to be over a hundred in each. The silver bowl to the right is staples from 3.
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Post by nvguy on Dec 14, 2021 23:40:57 GMT -5
Got the valances out of the 5W now and found multi different screws holding them, different sizes, lengths, and even found some black. Guess what ever they had in their pockets. Oh and the post about staples by greydog, they must have used them putting the valances together had to be over a hundred in each. The silver bowl to the right is staples from 3.
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
This isn't new, back when I was in the biz, all us techs thought they paid the assembly line workers by the staple. I would have loved to have owned the company that sold staples to Skyline or Forest River. |
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We always had bumper pulls, but I think I want to go small 5th wheel.
