cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 22, 2019 12:28:24 GMT -5
Regarding 2011 KZ Spree 318bhs
I'm wondering if these are normal voltage drops. Voltage Drops:
120.8 at the pedestal +/- .5volts as seems to fluctuate some during the day given the hot days.
117 - AC
113 - AC & Water Heater(WH)
110.6 - AC & Keurig(1470w)
107.1 - AC & Keurig & WH
If anything else is operated, while both the AC and Keurig are on together the 30amp main breaker switches off. Same goes for the AC, microwave and water heater. So I have to be very selective. I have to use water heater with LP(gas). Also the AC starts to make a louder noise when any other appliance is used such as the microwave or maybe the water heater. Still blows cold but gets loud.
In my previous RV(1993 class C) the main breaker never flipped but individual breakers would flip depending on circuit being overloaded. With my current KZ Spree travel trailer I fear using a space heater this winter, because if anything else is turned on, such as the water heater(electric) or microwave, or gaming console, then the main breaker will likely flip.
Never had this issue with my 1993 class C 30amp rv. Yes individual breaker would flip but not the main breaker. I could run 1500watt heater, three 300watt smaller heaters, gaming consoles, computers with no issues. I did have to turn the heater off; however, when making coffee.
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Post by lynnmor on Sept 22, 2019 13:36:57 GMT -5
You can use up to approximately 3,600 watts. The voltage will alter that number a bit. The wire sizes and lengths from the service panel to the outlet, then to the trailer and on to the various appliances all contribute to the amount of voltage drop. The AC compressor starting will momentarily pull high amps. The figures you provided seem to be on the low end of normal, so review all of the above mentioned wiring. Keep wire sizes large and lengths short as is practical.
It is good that you are measuring voltage, many have no clue about the problems that can arise. For example; 104.5 volts is the absolute minimum to operate an air conditioner without damage. I like to see 108 or more, if lower I then add in my autoformer and it will boost another 10%. Campgrounds often have inadequate wiring and voltage drops are common, especially when hot and the weekend crowd rolls in.
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 22, 2019 15:28:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the response!
I have a typical yellow twist-and-lock 10 guage power cord from shore to rv power inlet. Thinking about replacing the power cord to see if I can squeeze out a couple more volts. It just seems to me that the drops are quite large. Kuerig drops voltage 6.5 to 7volts. Water Heater 4 to 5 volts. That seems like a lot to me. Its as if there is some kind of resistance somewhere-loose screws in pedestal, etc. I was looking at an autotransfomer, but saw the price..ouch!
My converter fan also kicks on when x amount of lights are on. Seems normal as the volts at the converter read 13.52-4 Vdc with/out connection to battery. However battery voltage while disconnected never gets higher than 13.14 volts. I've wondered if some of my voltage loss is from the converter trying to always charge the battery, but that doesn't explain the large drops in volts when I turn on different appliances.
I even tried plugging into a neighboring site's 50amp pedestal with a 50-to-30amp adapter. Similar volt drops occurred as compared to my 30amp pedestal. The same with neighboring 30amp connection.
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Post by lynnmor on Sept 22, 2019 17:51:38 GMT -5
I suppose you are checking voltage at one of the interior duplex outlets?
Can you check the voltage at the pedestal while under load and with little load? If the voltage drops nearly the same right there, the campground is the problem. Expect just a bit lower voltage in the RV.
As you know, the 30 amp outlets at campgrounds are always abused by folks plugging in and out while under load. The fact that you tried another outlet reduces, (but not eliminates) the likelihood that the problem is there. Make sure that your plug prongs are bright by sanding with fine abrasive cloth. I always plug in and out multiple times to wipe the contacts inside the abused outlet and have a slightly better chance of getting good contact.
The converter sounds like it is working properly. That over 13 volts with the converter off will dissipate quickly and settle in under 13 volts. A discharged or faulty battery will cause a higher than normal draw, but your battery voltage indicates that it is OK. You can get a free battery test at AutoZone or Advance Autoparts if you want to remove that from the list.
Your 10 gauge cord is OK, if it isn't some Chinese knockoff using copper colored aluminum conductors. My Spree had the inlet screws completely loose, you need to pull the inlet and check behind it, because that is a serious fire hazard. I did away with the twist lock system and hard wired the cord eliminating one more trouble spot. I know, the world wants the silly things, I do not.
Yes, an autoformer is crazy expensive, search for a used one and look on the popular auction site. I made up my mind when at a very nice campground watching the voltage drop to 99.
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 22, 2019 20:23:19 GMT -5
I'm not sure how to check voltage at the pedestal while plugged into it. Would i need to have the plug partially out then touch the 30amp plug blades with my voltmeter? Or do I need some other go-between the cord and pedestal? I don't think they make a kil-a-watt device for 30 amp plugs. I'll search for an autotransformer, as its a small price to pay for bigger issues down the road. I will also remove the RV plug inlet-its held by 4 screws and within the plug casing there are smaller screws holding a circular piece of plastic with male blades, which the female part of the power cord connects into. How does one hard wire the cord and what about stowing the cord? Perhaps this is a question for another thread.
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Post by lynnmor on Sept 23, 2019 1:32:06 GMT -5
If there is a 15 amp duplex outlet on the pedestal, it should provide the same voltage as the 30 amp. Your idea of pulling out the plug a small amount and probing behind ain't pretty, but it should work. I was lucky in that there was plenty of room behind the inlet for cord storage. I simply removed the kitchen drawers and boxed in the area to contain the cord. If you have some room, you don't need to connect the entire length, just six feet or so will get you well outside with the trailer plug. Hopefully my Photobucket site will work for you, they have totally hosed the thing with ads and you may need to go back and forth to enlarge each photo. s1270.photobucket.com/user/lynnmor/library/story_17319
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Post by laknox on Sept 23, 2019 10:04:46 GMT -5
I'm not sure how to check voltage at the pedestal while plugged into it. Would i need to have the plug partially out then touch the 30amp plug blades with my voltmeter? Or do I need some other go-between the cord and pedestal? I don't think they make a kil-a-watt device for 30 amp plugs. I'll search for an autotransformer, as its a small price to pay for bigger issues down the road. I will also remove the RV plug inlet-its held by 4 screws and within the plug casing there are smaller screws holding a circular piece of plastic with male blades, which the female part of the power cord connects into. How does one hard wire the cord and what about stowing the cord? Perhaps this is a question for another thread. Get yourself a 50/30 adapter and plug into the 50a recep, if there is one, and see how that works. Often times, the 50a plug will give you a better contact due to less use. 30a plugs can be pretty sloppy, especially in a high-traffic CG. Personally, I'm pretty surprised that that voltage drop. Lyle
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 23, 2019 12:02:41 GMT -5
If there is a 15 amp duplex outlet on the pedestal, it should provide the same voltage as the 30 amp. Your idea of pulling out the plug a small amount and probing behind ain't pretty, but it should work. I was lucky in that there was plenty of room behind the inlet for cord storage. I simply removed the kitchen drawers and boxed in the area to contain the cord. If you have some room, you don't need to connect the entire length, just six feet or so will get you well outside with the trailer plug. Hopefully my Photobucket site will work for you, they have totally hosed the thing with ads and you may need to go back and forth to enlarge each photo. s1270.photobucket.com/user/lynnmor/library/story_17319ad blocker extension for chrome removed the ads on the photobucket. Interesting setup. I tried viewing your water pump and water line projects but couldn't see them. Maybe I will be able to view your other projects now that I'm a member of this forum. My water pump is in the pass through forward compartment. I'm thinking I need to protect the city water inlet line to the pump and that whole messy pump setup during the winter. I've considered putting a hole in luan or whatever flimsy board the pump is screwed onto, so that heat from the bedroom can get into the forward pass through compartment and keep the pump and connecting lines from freezing. Then make a foam board box around the pump so the heat from the bedroom just heats the pump area and incoming city water line. Or I could just use a heat lamp or small 200watt heater. Plan to skirt with foam board as well, and run a small heater underneath. I wish the fresh water tank was under bed like it was in my class C, as it stayed nice and warm. Same with the pump in the class C. Getting back to the electric issues. So the 15amp duplex outlets could show a drop in volts when I'm plugged into the 30amp. I didn't know this. I thought they were wired separately from the 30 and 50amp wiring.
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 23, 2019 12:05:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure how to check voltage at the pedestal while plugged into it. Would i need to have the plug partially out then touch the 30amp plug blades with my voltmeter? Or do I need some other go-between the cord and pedestal? I don't think they make a kil-a-watt device for 30 amp plugs. I'll search for an autotransformer, as its a small price to pay for bigger issues down the road. I will also remove the RV plug inlet-its held by 4 screws and within the plug casing there are smaller screws holding a circular piece of plastic with male blades, which the female part of the power cord connects into. How does one hard wire the cord and what about stowing the cord? Perhaps this is a question for another thread. Get yourself a 50/30 adapter and plug into the 50a recep, if there is one, and see how that works. Often times, the 50a plug will give you a better contact due to less use. 30a plugs can be pretty sloppy, especially in a high-traffic CG. Personally, I'm pretty surprised that that voltage drop. Lyle Pedestal I'm working with is just 30amps and two 15amps. The neighboring pedestal is all three- 50/30/15. CG put is in a 30amp and saved the other sites for weekend warriors and people staying a night or two. I'm concerned about the drop in voltage but it could be just the way the 2011 Spree is wired. Perhaps my older 93 class C was wired with heavier duty stuff.
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Post by lynnmor on Sept 23, 2019 13:07:28 GMT -5
It is likely both the 30 & 15 amp outlets are on the same bus. If the voltage drops significantly on the 15 amp outlet, then the campground wiring is inadequate. The wiring in the trailer is probably sized to code. #10 to the breaker panel, #12 for 20 amp breakers & #14 for the 15 amp breakers. If there is an issue, then it is the extremely sloppy workmanship at KZ. Your trailer was built when the industry had not yet recovered from a major recession and they were cutting every corner, not that workmanship is a whole lot better now. Using the trailer in temperatures well below freezing will be a challenge, they are just not suited for that. The heated underbelly only gets heat from the furnace and that is just a pair of 2" flexible hoses blowing in and may not do much in some areas. Here is the PB address again, don't know how much success you will have: link
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 23, 2019 13:08:51 GMT -5
If there is a 15 amp duplex outlet on the pedestal, it should provide the same voltage as the 30 amp. Your idea of pulling out the plug a small amount and probing behind ain't pretty, but it should work. I was lucky in that there was plenty of room behind the inlet for cord storage. I simply removed the kitchen drawers and boxed in the area to contain the cord. If you have some room, you don't need to connect the entire length, just six feet or so will get you well outside with the trailer plug. Hopefully my Photobucket site will work for you, they have totally hosed the thing with ads and you may need to go back and forth to enlarge each photo. s1270.photobucket.com/user/lynnmor/library/story_17319These are the results of probing in between the 30amp power cord and pedestal 30 amp plug in. I pulled plug out just enough to give me some surface contacts for my voltmeter probes. 120.8 to 121.7 inside no AC or WH 116.1 - 117 inside AC 112 - 113.2 inside AC & WH at the pedestal measuring Ground to Hot 121 to 121.7 outside no ac or WH 119.4 outside AC 118.2 outside AC & WH at the pedestal measuring Hot to Neutral 121.7 outside No AC or WH 117.8 outside AC 115.8 outside AC & WH Measuring my 30amp yellow cord while plugged into 30amp pedestal shows 121.7 at both ground to hot and neutral to hot.
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 23, 2019 13:13:54 GMT -5
It is likely both the 30 & 15 amp outlets are on the same bus. If the voltage drops significantly on the 15 amp outlet, then the campground wiring is inadequate. The wiring in the trailer is probably sized to code. #10 to the breaker panel, #12 for 20 amp breakers & #14 for the 15 amp breakers. If there is an issue, then it is the extremely sloppy workmanship at KZ. Your trailer was built when the industry had not yet recovered from a major recession and they were cutting every corner, not that workmanship is a whole lot better now. Using the trailer in temperatures well below freezing will be a challenge, they are just not suited for that. The heated underbelly only gets heat from the furnace and that is just a pair of 2" flexible hoses blowing in and may not do much in some areas. Here is the PB address again, don't know how much success you will have: link I measured the 15amp duplex at pedestal while AC and WH on and measure about 121.7 volts or so. They must be on a different bus than the 30amp bus.
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Post by lynnmor on Sept 23, 2019 13:25:10 GMT -5
[/quote]I measured the 15amp duplex at pedestal while AC and WH on and measure about 121.7 volts or so. They must be on a different bus than the 30amp bus.[/quote]
Looks like it. Was the voltage low in the trailer at the same time?
I guess you will have to probe behind the plug, please be careful.
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 23, 2019 14:01:47 GMT -5
I measured the 15amp duplex at pedestal while AC and WH on and measure about 121.7 volts or so. They must be on a different bus than the 30amp bus.[/quote] Looks like it. Was the voltage low in the trailer at the same time? I guess you will have to probe behind the plug, please be careful. [/quote] Yes voltage drops were all there inside the trailer. But 15amp read strong 121 to 122.
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Post by lynnmor on Sept 23, 2019 15:56:59 GMT -5
at the pedestal measuring Hot to Neutral
121.7 outside No AC or WH 117.8 outside AC 115.8 outside AC & WH
120.8 to 121.7 inside no AC or WH 116.1 - 117 inside AC 112 - 113.2 inside AC & WH
So you are only dropping a maximum of 3.8 volts in your entire system, that sounds normal, mine drops about 2 to 3.
The campground is adding a drop of 5.9 volts to that.
Not terrible, but more drop than it should be. I would say that what you have is what the situation is at a high percentage of campgrounds. Since you had tripping breakers and change of AC sound, keep a close eye on it and maybe there are worse sags from time to time. Remember that 108 is low and 104 is time to shut down any motorized alliances. I have a digital voltmeter plugged into an outlet at all times.
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 23, 2019 17:06:18 GMT -5
Even without the AC. For example I just measured inside power at 120.2. No AC running. Just two laptops 65watt and 130watt. Norcold fridge at setting 3 out of 5.
I just ran my water heater and volts dropped to 116v, then water heater & kuerig 109.8v, then water heater and microwave(1350watts) 112v, and then I ran them all: water heater, kuerig, and microwave 106.4. Had I turned on a gaming console or tv, then breaker would have flipped. Probably would have flipped if I left all three appliances on. O well, I guess I need move on. I still need to check the trailer 30amp inlet plug for loose wires. Doubt there will be any though.
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k0vwa
Newbie RV’er
Posts: 47
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Post by k0vwa on Sept 25, 2019 12:19:57 GMT -5
I woke up last night worrying about this. Kept thinking about the lower voltage needing higher current and that higher current causing a fire. Went outside this morning and tested our little 20' Spree Escape. It's plugged into the house/shore power with a 50' 10ga extension cord. Turned on the AC and measured a 0.5V drop on one of the trailer's 120V outlets. This got me to wondering if maybe your trailer has a bad ground somewhere? I've had a few automotive ground cables "go bad" over the years. Resistance measured fine with no load and was much higher when pushing starting current through it. I'm not smart enough to figure out how to test that in a trailer but wanted to pass along the thought just in case it helps. Good luck! Always keep one hand in your pocket if you're working on live alternating current circuits.
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cs
Newbie RV’er
2011 Spree LX 318bhs 6200#trailer 810#hitch, Blue Ox 2000# WDH
Posts: 19
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Post by cs on Sept 25, 2019 14:03:25 GMT -5
I woke up last night worrying about this. Kept thinking about the lower voltage needing higher current and that higher current causing a fire. Went outside this morning and tested our little 20' Spree Escape. It's plugged into the house/shore power with a 50' 10ga extension cord. Turned on the AC and measured a 0.5V drop on one of the trailer's 120V outlets. This got me to wondering if maybe your trailer has a bad ground somewhere? I've had a few automotive ground cables "go bad" over the years. Resistance measured fine with no load and was much higher when pushing starting current through it. I'm not smart enough to figure out how to test that in a trailer but wanted to pass along the thought just in case it helps. Good luck! Always keep one hand in your pocket if you're working on live alternating current circuits. 0.5V drop is less than the volt drops in my trailer. I guess I could crawl under and check for loose wires along the frame; however, it gets harder to duck walk as you get older. I wonder if there is a place to ground wires behind the circuit/fuse box. I've looked behind the circuit/fuse box and it's a mess...wires going everywhere. I'm not going to mess with that area. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Post by lynnmor on Sept 25, 2019 16:00:13 GMT -5
I woke up last night worrying about this. Kept thinking about the lower voltage needing higher current and that higher current causing a fire. Went outside this morning and tested our little 20' Spree Escape. It's plugged into the house/shore power with a 50' 10ga extension cord. Turned on the AC and measured a 0.5V drop on one of the trailer's 120V outlets. This got me to wondering if maybe your trailer has a bad ground somewhere? I've had a few automotive ground cables "go bad" over the years. Resistance measured fine with no load and was much higher when pushing starting current through it. I'm not smart enough to figure out how to test that in a trailer but wanted to pass along the thought just in case it helps. Good luck! Always keep one hand in your pocket if you're working on live alternating current circuits. 0.5V drop is less than the volt drops in my trailer. I guess I could crawl under and check for loose wires along the frame; however, it gets harder to duck walk as you get older. I wonder if there is a place to ground wires behind the circuit/fuse box. I've looked behind the circuit/fuse box and it's a mess...wires going everywhere. I'm not going to mess with that area. Thanks for the suggestions. Ground wires have nothing to do with it, the hot and neutral conductors carry the load. cs, the majority of your voltage drop is in the campground wiring, not yours. k0vwa, do you have the thru the wall air conditioner that uses much less amps? Did you try adding more loads like the water heater and microwave?
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k0vwa
Newbie RV’er
Posts: 47
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Post by k0vwa on Sept 26, 2019 7:54:04 GMT -5
k0vwa, do you have the thru the wall air conditioner that uses much less amps? Did you try adding more loads like the water heater and microwave?
Yup. It's the little one. It's the only big-ish AC load we can run - the water heater is propane only and I replaced the microwave oven with a cabinet door. That's probably why I only saw a half volt drop.
As an aside, I used to repair microwave ovens for the company that sells the cheapest ones at Walmart. We would get several returns per week where the oven had caught fire - usually from cooking bacon or roach droppings - but we did see a few with no known cause. The oven would just turn itself on and run until it caught fire. We torture tested many units and could never make one catch fire but we still saw them come in every week.
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