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Post by diamondk on May 28, 2019 10:29:44 GMT -5
Hi Fellow Durango owners,
I am having an issue with the fresh tank in new to me 2011 Durango 1500
1) Fresh water tank builds up pressure when I fill it to the point of swelling the tank even at only half full 2) I cant find a pressure relief valve that I suspect may be blocked or closed 3) when I push in the back flow on the city water inlet it does release pressure but it should never develop that much pressure in my opinion 4) I seem to have an air lock or something as the pressure pump will run but wont build up any pressure to pull water from tank and push to fixtures
Please help as I am getting quite frustrated
Thanks
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Post by lynnmor on May 28, 2019 14:22:15 GMT -5
KZ built thousands of RVs with the tank vents being simply a pair of pipes going thru the underbelly. You filled the tank till water poured out of those vents. The problem is that when traveling, water spilled out of those vents and most of it was lost. Many put valves on those vents causing problems like you are having. One would need to open the vents whenever filling or using and if you ever forget just once, serious damage will result. You may have already damaged the floor, frame or other things.
The proper fix is to route those vents in a way that they exit the coach well above water level.
Check for vent hoses or pipes coming out the bottom and report back.
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Post by diamondk on May 28, 2019 21:40:53 GMT -5
The tank was never filled to capacity and actually never filled bast 3/4. That is why I believe the vents may may have been capped or have valves that are closed. As soon the floor started to bow it was shut off but again no water came out anywhere near the tank. I emptied the tank by using the low water drains There are no vents readily visible so I suspect they are in the under belly Where would I begin to look to see if I can find them Again water works on city water but almost nothing trying to use pump to pressure system
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Post by lynnmor on May 29, 2019 4:22:39 GMT -5
You need to identify how the fresh water tank is vented. Is there a gravity fill where a cap can be removed and water poured in, or is the tank pressure fill only?
The tank should not be vented into the underbelly. The fresh water tank should have no pressure and should not swell, but the bottom may sag from water weight. Describe the drains that you are finding.
Valves need to be turned a certain way to pressure fill and another way for the pump to supply water.
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Post by Edd505 on May 29, 2019 13:54:33 GMT -5
Not sure about the 11's but this is what I've seen in the Durango's. The valves have to be set by this picture, white across blue and black down = dry camp or internal water, turn on the pump. White & black across blue down city water, pump off & relieve pressure before disconnecting the hose.
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Post by lynnmor on May 29, 2019 16:06:33 GMT -5
Not sure about the 11's but this is what I've seen in the Durango's. The valves have to be set by this picture, white across blue and black down = dry camp or internal water, turn on the pump. White & black across blue down city water, pump off & relieve pressure before disconnecting the hose. Since I don't know exactly what the valves look like on the trailer in question, I just made a general statement about valves being turned a certain way. My concern is not with the valves, it is the lack of a tank vent, and that quite possibly was caused by the previous owner doing something stupid like putting valves on the vent pipes.
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Post by lynnmor on May 29, 2019 16:08:31 GMT -5
2011 was the height of bad plumbing ideas from KZ, ask me how I know.
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Post by diamondk on May 29, 2019 17:32:11 GMT -5
The valve system is not like the one represented above but as Lynmor said I am not concerned about the valves as I am confident they are not the issue as there are just 3 shut offs and is quite simple. I do get reasonable pressure in the winterization line when I test it so I don't think it is a pump issue but I may swap that out anyway. The issue has to be in the vents or lack there of. There is one gravity hose attached to the bottom of the fresh water tank, One gravity hose attached to the HWT and one set of gravity hoses in the front of the trailer that I assume are for the bathroom. There is no other hoses that are visible anywhere under the trailer. I was hoping that someone with the same vintage of trailer can tell me where there vent lines typical are before I have to remove all of the underbelly to try and find them( if they are even still there).
I did remove one small piece of the underbelly that had been previously been cut out and repaired so I can see a portion of the tank and can see the gravity drain on the underside of the tank and and I can see the inlet and outlet lines on the tank but no sign of any vent lines so I may have to just remove the whole panel to see what I am dealing with as well to make sure there is no damage to the tank or trailer from tank swelling up
I bought the trailer for a really good price but was at an auction so I may be discovering why it was consigned from the dealer to the auction as they would not have to disclose this issue. Everything else on the trailer is amazing shape and everything else works 100% so I just need to get this figured out.
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Post by lynnmor on May 30, 2019 2:47:13 GMT -5
Once again:
Is there a gravity fill where a cap can be removed and water poured in, or is the tank pressure fill only?
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Post by diamondk on May 30, 2019 10:35:07 GMT -5
there is not a gravity fill that I can see
I have found the vent that I mistook for a gravity drain on the HWT. It does have a valve on it that appears was completed by previous owner. I will have to be careful when I fill to make sure it is open and that I don't put water in faster than the relief can take pressure out
Pump is still not working optimally so Think I will replace to see what I have with the new pump. Worse case I guess is that it does not fix the water pressure issue but at least I have a spare pump should I require it
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Post by Chuck on May 30, 2019 11:19:45 GMT -5
there is not a gravity fill that I can see I have found the vent that I mistook for a gravity drain on the HWT. It does have a valve on it that appears was completed by previous owner. I will have to be careful when I fill to make sure it is open and that I don't put water in faster than the relief can take pressure out Pump is still not working optimally so Think I will replace to see what I have with the new pump. Worse case I guess is that it does not fix the water pressure issue but at least I have a spare pump should I require it The valve you may be looking at is a drain valve, there should be a vent tube an a drain valve on your fresh water tanks, so it sounds as if your missing a drain tube on you fresh water tank ...
Also I know you stated that your trailer is a 2011 1500 but what model of trailer may also help, as well changing pumps may help adding pressure to your overall system like shower an fossets as well as filling your tank..
Some pictures of the bottom of the trailer would help as well
Added note, you can go to the Kz web site an on the bottom of their page is a link to manuals for their trailers, this may or may not help you since most manuals a generic in nature an a coverall for the series or model of trailer you own
Safe Travels
Chuck
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Post by lynnmor on May 30, 2019 11:23:01 GMT -5
A vent or drain on the water heater will do nothing for venting the fresh water tank.
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Post by diamondk on May 30, 2019 11:52:33 GMT -5
A vent or drain on the water heater will do nothing for venting the fresh water tank. As mentioned I mistook this vent for the HWT drain as it was routed over to directly under the HWT and a valve installed on it from the previous owners. I have traced it back to the fresh water tank so I can confirm it is indeed the tank vent
I assume the owner put the valve on the vent so they could travel with the tank full without losing the water.
I already put a sticker on the water inlet to make sure vent valve is open to avoid another incident of pressurizing the tank inadvertently
Now if the new pumps fixes the pressure issue then I am in good shape. If not I will have to see where there might be a blockage but lets hope this fixes the final piece of the puzzle
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Post by johnr on May 31, 2019 6:52:11 GMT -5
Personally, I would just leave that vent open all the time, maybe even remove the valve from the tubing. I'd rather run out of water rather than expand or collapse my tank by filling or drawing from an unvented one.
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Post by Edd505 on May 31, 2019 10:38:06 GMT -5
As mentioned I mistook this vent for the HWT drain as it was routed over to directly under the HWT and a valve installed on it from the previous owners. I have traced it back to the fresh water tank so I can confirm it is indeed the tank vent
I assume the owner put the valve on the vent so they could travel with the tank full without losing the water.
I already put a sticker on the water inlet to make sure vent valve is open to avoid another incident of pressurizing the tank inadvertently
Now if the new pumps fixes the pressure issue then I am in good shape. If not I will have to see where there might be a blockage but lets hope this fixes the final piece of the puzzle
That is a very good guess, I have read many reports on people filling tanks leaving to find near empty tanks when they are, that water will siphon out.
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Post by diamondk on May 31, 2019 13:43:09 GMT -5
Ok so I replace the pump and it is slight better but is still struggling with getting water. I am going to remove the valve on the vent tonight but there still seems to be pressure building in the tank for some reason. When I push the back up valve on the city water fill it still pushes out air and even water back out the fresh water fill. It almost seems like the pump is creating negative pressure in the tank when it is trying to suck water and creating some type of airlock possibly.
I am wondering if I drained the tank and open the gravity drain on the bottom of the tank and then pushed compressed air through the vent into the empty tank to make sure there is not a block. I currently have the tank half full and don't want to add any more water for fear of blowing up the tank without the air space currently in there.
Ultimately this is not that complicated of a system so this should not be that hard to figure out but I really don't want to remove all of the corplast underbelly if I don't have to
Just a note that the system works fine on city water but where we do most of our camping there is power but no water so I need to get this figured out
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Post by Chuck on Jun 3, 2019 6:49:23 GMT -5
diamondk
I don't know what your expecting in water pressure when not hooked up to city water, I can tell you are water pressure is no where near what the pressure is when hooked to city when running off the pump ...
As you stated maybe blowing out the lines both directions make help if there is a blockage, but again the pressure off the pump I believe at least in our 5th wheel is possibly half or a little more of what we have when hooked to city water, which is I believe 45psi if i remember correctly as to what I have our pressure gauge set at...
Chuck
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Post by johnr on Jun 3, 2019 7:15:01 GMT -5
Is the fresh water overflow plugged as well (aside from the valve)? You can take a clean drain snake or fish tape and push it up into the tank to make sure. If you have an air compressor with a blow gun tip, you could also blow air up into the tube to try to clear any obstruction. That's where the air is supposed to escape or to draw into the tank to keep everything regulated.
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Post by laknox on Jun 3, 2019 10:03:47 GMT -5
The tank was never filled to capacity and actually never filled bast 3/4. That is why I believe the vents may may have been capped or have valves that are closed. As soon the floor started to bow it was shut off but again no water came out anywhere near the tank. I emptied the tank by using the low water drains There are no vents readily visible so I suspect they are in the under belly Where would I begin to look to see if I can find them Again water works on city water but almost nothing trying to use pump to pressure system You'd =think= that the pressure in the tank would almost force water through the pump. IMO, it should certainly pick up and pump with no problems with some pressure behind it. Lyle
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Post by laknox on Jun 3, 2019 10:07:58 GMT -5
A vent or drain on the water heater will do nothing for venting the fresh water tank. As mentioned I mistook this vent for the HWT drain as it was routed over to directly under the HWT and a valve installed on it from the previous owners. I have traced it back to the fresh water tank so I can confirm it is indeed the tank vent
I assume the owner put the valve on the vent so they could travel with the tank full without losing the water.
I already put a sticker on the water inlet to make sure vent valve is open to avoid another incident of pressurizing the tank inadvertently
Now if the new pumps fixes the pressure issue then I am in good shape. If not I will have to see where there might be a blockage but lets hope this fixes the final piece of the puzzle
Go to an aviation site and order a big red REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT flag. :-) Lyle
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