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Post by jeff318rlt on Dec 12, 2018 7:12:34 GMT -5
Just imagine..... If they would build them right the first time. KZ, if you are really interested in fixing YOUR quality problem, do that first, then fix your dealer representation for your "quality" product. A dealer selling a product, is a direct representative of that product!
According to another previous post, in anther thread, there would be "5 percent" that would complain regardless, well I am one of the 5% that spent waaay over 50k for something that I have to fix myself, not just complaining about something for the sake of complaining. Let me ask you before condemning me, IF you were to by a 50k plus tow vehicle, and it needed service every time you used it, would you not take it back to your dealer expecting it to be remedied? Or would you take it back to the factory (The infamous KZ Ralley)for them to correct it? I think not. I tend to believe that you would expect it to be fixed, the first time, with quality parts if needed, and for good, AT YOUR DEALER! Now, try that with your newly purchased RV. Every product has defects, that is understood, but c'mon, KZ, build 'em right the first time. People want a quality product, that is why the premium price is paid!
Good luck in the future with your dealer(s) and any support you may receive! ( my experience says, Yer gonna need it!)
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Post by jeff318rlt on Dec 12, 2018 7:19:03 GMT -5
Just a few of the items that SHOULD have been taken care of by the dealer:
Replace slide lag bolts. Broken from the start
Repair stereo wiring, shorted on the aluminum frame
Hot water/ Cold water in outside kitchen (plumbed backward)
Flooring / Chairs (anchors to keep them from flying during transit) torn flooring and carpet is/was the result
Air duct work for cold air return and heat supply (fell off, and/or not even fastened)
Door Cylinder on water panel – ripped out (3 times so far)
Cable TV issues, wrong, incorrect cabling
Weather stripping blowing loose (65mph strip over the screw moulding blew off on highway)
Fireplace switch- defective
Adjust the kitchen slide,- roof leaks
And many more.
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Post by laknox on Dec 12, 2018 10:34:11 GMT -5
AMEN! Got a link to that other thread?
Lyle
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Post by kathyed on Dec 12, 2018 12:34:57 GMT -5
A second AMEN! I told my sales representative the issues we've have experienced had sucked the joy out of owning the unit.
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Post by Chuck on Dec 12, 2018 15:53:28 GMT -5
jeff318rlt First let me say that the majority of repairs done at the Kz Rally could be done by a dealer an most should ... But saying the above like my dealer I ask for repairs a week after I left the dealer an they told me it would be three months before I could get back in for such, guess what, the Kz Rally happened to be in four months from when I bought the trailer so I choose the Kz Rally ...One of these repairs I fixed but it's my fault for not seeing such during my PDI, the other was the furnace an it was fixed by a Suburban dealer not far from
me ... Did Kz know my furnace was going to go bad an installed it anyway, I believe not, did Kz know my dealer was not going to take out the transportation lag bolts in my bedroom slide so it wouldn't open all the way, no ...
I will say that I believe that Kz makes a solid trailer, are there trailers that Kz builds that are not, I'm sure there is, should they do a better job of inspecting trailers before they leave the assemble line, possibly if they had the man power to do so which like most ever RV Mfg in Indiana dozen't have...
I for one along with a few other have seen some of their QC while being built, they have marked stuff I would have never seen at least on the 5th wheel line ... Do they check for water leaks, no, not that I have seen, do they check to make sure the TV works an wiring is done right, we all know that answer to that, NO, not in most case's ... If you look on other RV forms you will see the same complaints over an over, do I believe that Kz is trying harder, I believe they are ... Would I like to go to work as a QC guy there, you bet, but the plane fair weekly would out weigh the wage LOL ...
Should they do more QC I for one would says yes, but how much QC is enough, how much man power do you use
to keep price down ... Like any other mid range RV Mfg they rely on their dealers to do a good PDI to make sure defeats or errors are found when a trailer is delivered before a customers even see it on the lot, do most, no !!!
I would say that your dealer should have from the start taken care of 90 percent of what you listed before you even saw your trailer ... Like you I had lag bolts on a slide that should have been removed, my TV didn't work from the get go, my fault for not checking it, when seeing our trailer at the RV show the TV was working, it was however playing a CD on a CD payer that they were using to advertise the trailer ... Did we check for a CD when doing the PDI, no because we had seen it working at the show Ugh!!! When we got the trailer home an loaded up for the 1st trip the DW ask were the CD was, it was playing before at the show, that's when we found out we had no CD in that model an year of our trailer ... This is why I made the PDI List, even though I have been around RV's off an on for a number of years I missed things that I shouldn't have because I didn't have that list to check off what I needed to, I was to smart for that, list who needs a list, ya right !!!
I for one had them turn on the water in every sink on our 5th wheel including the outside water outsets to make sure we had hot water in every one as well as cold water, I also made them leave the water running so I could see any leaks under the sinks or trailer while running ... I reach in after the RV Tech check fittings to make sure he wasn't pulling my leg an that fittings were tight do to the fact I had some come loose in our old 5th wheel from traveling down the road over a period of time ... But again this is something that any dealer should checked on their PDI when
they received the trailer from Kz or for that matter any trailer MFG...
I have to laugh about the chair anchors, I didn't know about such till someone posted about such in another thread on the form, WHAT, floor anchors, WERE are they, ours was still in an hadn't been removed in over a year an half of travels across the country two an half times Ugh !!! Our old 5th wheel didn't have theater seating only reclining chairs with foot stools ... The trailer is now at the dealers to have the theater seats replace because one will not recline all the way for close to six months now, not Kz's fault but something broke under chair ... So now that I know about such an it's at the dealers I'm going to see if they put back such after they replace the seating, will be interesting to see what happens LOL ....
On the dealer representation, dealers really don't care I believe, trailers no matter what condition are selling now an flying off lots ... Travel down any road now days an it isn't 5 minutes an you see a TT or 5th going down the road even in the late fall or a bit longer in the winter in some place's were there isn't snow an ice ... Thus dealers in allot of case's now no longer care about brand loyalty, the dealer we bought our trailer from sells Thor, Forest
River brand 5th wheels an TT right next to each other, do the care about Kz, not really, what they care about is
selling a trailer no matter what brand it is an believe me they all have problems ... The day I dropped off our 5th
wheel I saw a new Coachmen 5th wheel being dropped off an right behind it was an Air Steam an a trailer next to
mind was a Montana in for repair of slide seals so the owner stated ...
Am a fan of Kz, you bet, I believe in the mid price range they can't be beat for what we paid (60K) for our 5th wheel before trade in, would I buy another, you bet, ours is solid an believe me it has taken a beating since we owned it .. Would I have changed some things, you bet, do I believe Kz could upgrade some things on larger 5th wheel yes, but I believe they are trying harder to improve their product while keeping the bottom line in the mid point price range ...
Safe Travels 
Chuck
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Post by nvguy on Dec 12, 2018 22:36:42 GMT -5
OK, it's apparent KZ needs to step up their own internal PDI. KZ needs to work on this, as it's becoming apparent that they cannot rely on their dealers to do even a basic PDI.
But this isn't a recent phenomenon.
The dealer I worked for didn't sell KZ, we sold lots of other large popular manufactures. Let me tell you, every one of them had problems. One of my tasks was receiving new units, and in several cases I had a page of issues- and this doesn't include functional items like plumbing leaks and such. A large part of the OP's original issues should have been caught and repaired by the dealer during the PDI (not that KZ should have let a unit leave the factory with these defects).
If this was my coach, I would be having one serious meeting with the dealership owner and service manager asking them to explain why I received such a poorly prepared coach? Are they proud of their work? Was the check I wrote missing a few zeros?
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Post by laknox on Dec 13, 2018 11:18:20 GMT -5
Chuck, I firmly believe that true warranty #'s are one of the most closely guarded secrets in the RV industry and, if they ever got out, would damage the industry for years. Really, what's the cost of spending an extra hour to build every unit when you balance that against warranty claims? They =know= that a lot of RV owners will fix their own problems because of the hassles of dealing with crappy dealers (which I think mfrs tend to foster, to a certain extent) and the hassles the mfrs =create= in just trying to get the correct parts delivered and in the denial of what =should= be valid warranty claims. Can you imagine what would happen if Warren Buffet laid down the law and said that all dealers who sell the brands that we produce =must= fix any unit that came in, no matter where bought, and do so in a timely manner? Hire more trained techs and pay them better to handle the load. WE will step up and pay a better rate for warranty repairs and will send the correct parts the =first= time. Think it would force the other mfrs to step up, too?
Lyle
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Post by Chuck on Dec 13, 2018 12:47:37 GMT -5
Lyle Let me tell you that Kz would hire more Techs if they could, they were begging for help, experienced or otherwise the past two years we were back their ... Any of our group could have went to work the next day if they filled out an application, every where you look back there, there is signs out for workers ... Again as I have said an nvguy stated could Kz do better, I believe they are, but they can't watch every move of all their workers, am I making excesses for them, NO!! As states some place the production lines are not lined with robots, they are humans an humans make errors ... Again I lay it on the dealers, if the dealer would push back on claims an charge back more then the factory would start to take notice an pay more attention to detail ... It also comes back to you as a customer as well, in this case you know what flows up hill not down hill, the more the customer complains an makes dealers do warranty work the more the dealer complains to the factory, thus the more factory looks at their production, it simple math ... I have said it before, read any of these RV forms an you will see the same complains over an over again, but look at the amount of units that are traveling down the road, thousands now, more than ever ... I believe the trailer of today is much better than the trailer of yesterday, better an lighter materials, better construction, lighter an larger trailers in most case's but not all ... As I stated an nvguy stated, could there be better QC, yes of course, could they check every TV going out the door to see if it works an receives stations, I would like to see that happen, will it, more than likely not, will they put water thought every trailers system, I don't thinks so, think of the cost during the winter of doing so an then winterizing each an every one, talk about cost ... I have toured other RV MFG plant's, Coachmen for instance when were toured the 5th wheel line had a very large building twice the size of the Kz plant stuffed with trailers from one end to the other ... Kz had a number of trailers as well but they spaced pretty well between each an had a quarter of what i saw at the Coachmen plant an I'm sure Kz spent much more time on each unit than the other ... Can Kz do better, again I believe they are, but again are you willing to pay for it, I know Lyle you bought your trailer at a great price, would you have paid say 7 or 8K more for your trailer because the build quality was better, knowing what you have posted in the past about the great deal you got you more than likely would have looked else were ... This is also were the problem lyes, people want great deals but are not will to pay for such, not saying your cheap Lyle, what I'm saying you wouldn't have paid 60K for a 40K trailer an neither would I ... The MSRP on our trailer was 98K, would I have paid 98K, no way, but I believe I got my monies worth at 60K, an I still believe to this day believe that ... Again I read some of the same complains in the RV forms of 150K trailers an 200K motor coach's untill there is more regulation like the auto industry you will keep seeing problems, but I believe that at least Kz is trying to do it best yet were other have have given up so to speak ... Safe Travels Chuck |
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Post by laknox on Dec 14, 2018 12:53:33 GMT -5
I know there's a shortage of labor in N IN, but there's plenty of empty industrial floor space all over the country. Seems to me that it wouldn't be all that hard to start up a new manufacturing facility where there's more labor to be had. Yes, the suppliers are concentrated in IN, but there =are= trucks that can ship stuff to a new plant just as they ship stuff to their dealers.
Lyle
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Post by nvguy on Dec 15, 2018 0:13:19 GMT -5
Having been in the RV biz, I can tell you lots of people want something for nothing. Everyone wants a really really good deal and top drawer service. Aint gonna happen. Unless strict across the board minimum “sell at prices” are implemented and enforced, no dealer is going to work on coaches sold at another dealer. Of course, Forest River can just pay whatever the dealers request. Even Warren Buffett doesn’t have pockets that deep.
The dealership I worked for held a reasonable profit on the sale side so they could afford to send the service staff to training and pay a competitive wage. Did we lose some low ball deals? Sure. Did we make more “profit” not selling a unit at minimal profit? Yep. That’s why we stopped selling tent trailers and slide in campers. People who bought them buried us with warranty issues & the manufacturers didn’t pay anything approaching reasonable times.
The manufactures make it a cumbersome process. The dealership just doesn’t tell the manufacturer what was fixed-here is the bill. The warranty clerk has to get pre approval, (which requires someone like me to review the work order to estimate the time for each repair item) then hopefully what the manufacturer authorizes is realistic. In some cases it is, lot’s of the time it isn't. They three tenth you to death (actual time 1 hour, they pay .7) Not a big deal? It is when the customer has 15 items. Since RVs are a semi custom hand built item, coming up with a "flat rate" labor manual isn't all that practical (it has been tried, but there is still lots of room for arguing). Case in point, in each one of our coaches the water pump is in a different place. And who pays to remove all of the customer’s stuff to get to the pump? Are you the customer willing to pay? Do you empty your coach before taking it in for service?
Then we have parts, they won't pay the dealer cost, they pay their cost, or you have to get the parts from them...and wait.
End result, warranty is loser, so hopefully the dealer made enough money on the sale to offset this loss.
If the customer went to another dealer to buy the unit, there is zero chance of recovering that cost.
Why did the other dealer sell the unit cheaper? Because they knew it isn’t likely you were going to come back and cost them warranty money. Why would a dealer use up valuable shop time on someone who has already shown they are not willing to support their business by buying a product they sell? The dealer already has customers who have spent money at their dealership to take care of.
End result is the RV industry has a long way to go- on both the manufacturer and dealer sides. One thing to remember is RV production is a fraction of the automotive world, and RV's are more of a custom built item, so comparing an RV warranty experience to an automotive one is not fair.
I am not even going to get into what it takes to find a good RV tech. They have to be able to do everything. Don’t forget, the RV industry is competing with the construction industry.
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Post by jeff318rlt on Dec 15, 2018 12:06:27 GMT -5
With all respect NVguy,
My 50k+ spent on an RV or an truck/auto is still my money. When I expect a fair deal for a premium cost, it is a fair comparison! The dealer is still a representative of the product they sell. The dealer knows this cost recovery before selling a product. The PDI should be an industry standard and the SELLING DEALER should be held accountable, not only from the customer, but the factory that is representing the product being sold!
All I am saying I will go back to my original post, "Build it right the first time" . If you have inferior employees, train them or dismiss them. If you have inferior products, improve them or replace them. This is what the customers expect! I feel as I paid a premium for my coach. I could have purchased an equivalent camper, but I thought, at the time of purchase, KZ had a better product. What I found was a hurry up and ship them out the door atmosphere! This would be appropriate if it was built correct the first time!
Also this will result in returning customers, not only from a product standpoint, but also a dealer support standpoint, (parts).
The manufacturer has a responsibility, to the dealer, to provide a quality product. The dealer has a responsibility to the customer, to provide the quality that is provided by the manufacturer. If the quality is not there, well I guess that says where the next RV and dealer supporting parts will be purchased huh? My money can spend anywhere, I decided at the time to support KZ and THEIR representative. Not what I found. Sorry
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Post by Chuck on Dec 15, 2018 15:04:13 GMT -5
jeff318rlt I'm sorry you feel the way you do, many of as you know feel the other way, have we had repairs, yes most all of us have had some type of repairs either before buying or after buying... I also believe if you were to go to Kz an talk with the staff, tour the assembly line you would see that they are not one to as you state "hurry up and ship them out the door atmosphere!" ... I along with other have not seen this, yes they do the production lines to move along, any manufacturer of a product expects this, but I have to say wondering around a couple of plants an the repair building I did not see such... Yes they worked right along an did not stand around BS'ing but it was as I saw it a more relaxed work
environment with workers communicating with each other...
On the PDI as a industry standard every time we have bought a Trailer at a dealer used or now new we have done a PDI at the request of the dealer before signing anything ... Is it possible there are dealers would do not do
customer PDI's it's possible, a unsuspecting new RV buyer may be unaware of such years ago, but in today's world
I believe that's almost impossible ... Is the PDI a industry standard more than likely not, but I also believe that even in the auto industry it isn't, I believe in the auto industry it's an unwritten rule that is followed do to the fact a dealer wants a return customer ... Are car dealers more in-tune with per-delivery inspections, yes, they do not want a car that is scratched or not running for sure an the factory sure dosen't want to send them such either ... But you also have to look at a car, it's far smaller, no holding tanks for sewage or water, no stove, no slides, no bed or levelers, so inspection of a car is pretty simple compaired to a Trailer of any kind ...
Again like nvguy were are not saying that Kz shouldn't strive to do a better job, I believe they should, anyone like you or me should strive to do a better job while working, the key is will they, I believe with others they are always looking to do better ....
Again, I know that most people can not go to the factory am meet the staff or tour the plant ... But us who have, have come away with a different view of Kz ... I also know that no matter what I say nor others say in no way are we going to change your mind about Kz products or they way they build their product an that ok too, everyone has their own option an that's what makes the world go around ... I only wish you could meet the people who build the product as I have an talk with them face to face an see that they really do care about their customer base ... Do their dealers is some care's that up for interpretation, that's why the "Good am Bad dealer List"
Safe Travels
Chuck
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Post by nvguy on Dec 16, 2018 1:45:58 GMT -5
Jeff318RLT, I didn't mean to insult you or anything like that. What I meant to do was show it's a business decision by a dealer to not take on warranty work for a coach they didn't sell. Not some sort of revenge for not buying there.
Every item you have listed is legitimate and should have been caught during a PDI. No excuses there, the dealer just took your money and ran.
Yes, KZ shouldn't have shipped the unit with all those issues, but ultimately it's the dealer who should have found and fixed them.
The RV industry (not just KZ) needs to improve their factory inspection and not rely on the dealer as much as they do. Obviously, this isn't working all that well because far to many dealerships don't value their customers or the products they represent.
If you haven't already, you should make a post on the good-bad dealer thread, as your dealer did you no favors.
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Post by jeff318rlt on Dec 16, 2018 13:47:24 GMT -5
NVGuy, Not insulted at all! Im just trying to shed some light on issues that people face after ponying up their hard earned $$ only to get frustrated by the thoughts of something exciting! No offense at all!
Happy Camping!
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Post by nvguy on Dec 16, 2018 20:18:30 GMT -5
Believe me, I understand. Luckily I worked for a guy who really cared about customer satisfaction, so I had a blank check (within reason) to solve customer issues. I am not in the industry anymore, but it embarrasses me to hear complaints like yours because it is easily prevented so no customer has to deal with them.
Here's to a happy new year.
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Post by laknox on Dec 17, 2018 11:11:19 GMT -5
Nvguy, as I said before, this is a top-down correction that needs to take place. The mfrs need to tell their dealers to cooperate with each other on service, like the auto industry does. How many times do we typically need work on the road vs at home? Yes, I know a lot of stuff can be band-aided or flat not used until you get home, but why should you have to lose that function just because you're not near your selling dealer? The mfrs also need to pay the dealers better on warranty work, that's for sure. They also need to get parts out, CORRECTLY and TIMELY. I can understand some down-time, but when you see stories of people who's rigs are in the shop for 9 of the first 12 months because of incompetence on both the dealer AND the manufacturer, then you know that the industry is really mediocre, at best. It's just hard to have your truck have good dealer support wherever you might be, but have virtually NO dealer support for your camper.
Lyle
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Post by Chuck on Dec 17, 2018 12:30:01 GMT -5
Ok guys an Gals I would hope that Kzmod has been reading this thread an passing on comments, of course there is little he can do but pass such on to the production managers ...
As many of your know we have changed a number of things in our 5th wheel even thought it is only now close to 2 years old ... We did such to make it our own trailer as many people do, I an the DW still love our trailer an still think we made the right decision on what we bought ... Would we have paid more for the up-grades we have done on our suspension, yes, but overall the trailer has held together as we expected... We really haven't had to do much as far as repairs that were missed when it was built so we can't complain to much I guess we were pretty lucky in some respects as other have had far more repairs than use, maybe ours was built on a Wednesday an not a Monday or Friday LOL ...
As list is very small compared to others, TV antenna, Cabinet an Bedroom door needed adjusted, theater seating replaced ... The only major thing was the front flex on the front end, Kz an LCI looked at such an stated it was within the standard but added some more support to upgrade it even thought they didn't have to ... Kz even
installed a new front cap because they found a small crack in ours while working on it at Kz ... Kz fixed a door on our pantry by replacing all the hinge's that was our fault for screwing up an no cost to us ...
Safe travels
Chuck
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Post by dragonflight on Feb 13, 2019 10:44:53 GMT -5
I've read all of the posts in this thread with great interest and empathy. The purchase of an RV, for many of us, is a "bucket list" goal that we've had for many years.
My KZ Durango 2500 336RE was my second KZ 5th wheel, and 6th RV overall over a 20 year period. All were bought new, all from my local dealer.
My dealer is very experienced, a gifted troubleshooter and efficient repair tech who gets his hands dirty every day. No complaints on the dealer side.
My current KZ 5th wheel, now 5 years old, has been a disappointment. A partial list of design or manufacturing defects include a cracked fresh water tank, a defective bedroom slideout, a cracked toilet bowl, faulty bathroom sink faucet, unsealed slideout seams resulting in leaks, defective roof installation resulting in leaks and delamination of roof structure and sidewell, poor quality TV with delaminated screen, tire blowouts and broken axle and suspension components.
Some of these items were repaired under warranty but I'm paying for the rest. The roof problem is especially troubling. It takes awhile for the consequences to appear, and by the time they are noticed the damage is done (and the warranty expired). These are not DIY type repairs, and many dealers won't attempt them either. They are so costly that they will almost always put you upside down vs your loan or resale value.
So, what to do? My suggestion is that we all communicate to our respective manufacturers and dealers to insist on better designs and build quality, and longer structural warranties. Voting with your checkbook is a well proven way to nudge the builders in a better direction.
I look at BigFoot (I have no financial or other interest in the company) as an example of effective RV design, manufacturing process and quality assurance. Their use of a two piece fiberglass gel coat finish structure eliminates many of the seal and seam related water damage problems related to traditional designs. Their material choices help ensure that the camper will last longer than your loan payments.
There are some simple things that can be done right away that are cost effective. For example, switching to a 60 mil thick reinforced TPO or EPDM commercial grade roof membrane wouldn't add anything to labor costs, and are only slightly higher in material cost, but have a 20 year warranty.
Building leak proof roof structures isn't a mysterious, secret process known only to a select few. Why is "leaky roof syndrome" such a problem in the RV industry? The same applies to openings for windows, doors, etc. Take some lessons from the boat building industry and get this critical part right!
At the end of the day I'm afraid we, as consumers, are our own worst enemies. We keep paying for products that are built with an ever increasing focus on "flash" over substance. We care more about the interior than the structure. Unless we demand better, we won't see anything better.
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Post by laknox on Feb 13, 2019 16:06:06 GMT -5
I've read all of the posts in this thread with great interest and empathy. The purchase of an RV, for many of us, is a "bucket list" goal that we've had for many years. My KZ Durango 2500 336RE was my second KZ 5th wheel, and 6th RV overall over a 20 year period. All were bought new, all from my local dealer. My dealer is very experienced, a gifted troubleshooter and efficient repair tech who gets his hands dirty every day. No complaints on the dealer side. My current KZ 5th wheel, now 5 years old, has been a disappointment. A partial list of design or manufacturing defects include a cracked fresh water tank, a defective bedroom slideout, a cracked toilet bowl, faulty bathroom sink faucet, unsealed slideout seams resulting in leaks, defective roof installation resulting in leaks and delamination of roof structure and sidewell, poor quality TV with delaminated screen, tire blowouts and broken axle and suspension components. Some of these items were repaired under warranty but I'm paying for the rest. The roof problem is especially troubling. It takes awhile for the consequences to appear, and by the time they are noticed the damage is done (and the warranty expired). These are not DIY type repairs, and many dealers won't attempt them either. They are so costly that they will almost always put you upside down vs your loan or resale value. So, what to do? My suggestion is that we all communicate to our respective manufacturers and dealers to insist on better designs and build quality, and longer structural warranties. Voting with your checkbook is a well proven way to nudge the builders in a better direction. I look at BigFoot (I have no financial or other interest in the company) as an example of effective RV design, manufacturing process and quality assurance. Their use of a two piece fiberglass gel coat finish structure eliminates many of the seal and seam related water damage problems related to traditional designs. Their material choices help ensure that the camper will last longer than your loan payments. There are some simple things that can be done right away that are cost effective. For example, switching to a 60 mil thick reinforced TPO or EPDM commercial grade roof membrane wouldn't add anything to labor costs, and are only slightly higher in material cost, but have a 20 year warranty. Lyle:
They can use the best roofing material in the world, but if it's not installed correctly, it won't matter. You'll still have problems.
Building leak proof roof structures isn't a mysterious, secret process known only to a select few. Why is "leaky roof syndrome" such a problem in the RV industry? The same applies to openings for windows, doors, etc. Take some lessons from the boat building industry and get this critical part right! Lyle:
See above...At the end of the day I'm afraid we, as consumers, are our own worst enemies. We keep paying for products that are built with an ever increasing focus on "flash" over substance. We care more about the interior than the structure. Unless we demand better, we won't see anything better. Lyle:
Yet, there =are= a lot of us out here who couldn't give a rat's patoot about "flash" and just want a decent, solid rig, without a lot of "flash". Yeah, it's nice to have that electric awning, but I'd sure rather have the ability to leave it out on a breezy day when I decide to leave my site, instead of having to bring it in "just in case", and lose my shade. Remote control? I can do without it; I did for the previous 13 years. While a "convenience center" is nice, it isn't always that "convenient", in my experience. Hell, bring back a gravity fill for my fresh water tank! Why should I have to 1) burn through my battery to suck water into the tank via the pump and winterizing siphon or 2) buy a tank/bladder and a pump to pump extra water into my tank? |
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