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Post by luckydawg on Nov 13, 2018 1:40:16 GMT -5
Hello all. I have both a gripe and a serious question for the group regarding our 2018 382MBQ. Now I know many here will defend the build quality of KZ, but as both a civil engineer and a general contractor I would be embarrassed if I tried to pass off this level of construction to my customers. Our latest issue is the microwave oven nearly falling off the wall while traveling. The unit is located in the slideout which contributes to the problem. It was attached to the upper cabinet with 2 long screws, and to the back wall with 4 drywall screws. Sounds good until you realize that being in the slideout the back wall is nothing more than styrofoam with a thin veneer on it. This would never have held up in a stick framed home, nevermind something on wheels being bounced around on our lovely highways. Having had enough issues with dealers and a low level of support from KZ over the past year this is something I will obviously need to fix on my own. One option is to use construction adhesive to attach the lower mounting bracket to the wall and 'hope' it holds. I hate relying on hope - she never come through! The other option is to use construction adhesive to bond some 3/8" plywood to the back wall down to the countertop, mount the oven to that and finish the wall off with some glass tile as a backsplash. Still hope involved, but a little better. Unfortunately that is more work than I really want to put into this on the week before heading out for Thanksgiving. Does anyone have any other suggestions? I have owned RVs and boats before so I know nothing made with human hands is perfect, but expecting 4 screws to hold a microwave onto a foam wall is really dumb. From reading this forum I gather that many good discussions are had with the KZ folks at the yearly rally. I would love to attend but cannot due to living on the west coast with a young family and time constraints. It almost seems as though KZ only gives attention to those that attend? If I didn't love the trailer so much I would hate it. I know we will get beyond the initial wave of problems but it has been a tough first year with this 5th wheel from the "flagship" lineup.   |
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Post by johnr on Nov 13, 2018 8:36:42 GMT -5
The microwave doesn't have bolt holes on the top or sides, does it? I would think it would have at least 4 bolts available on the top to secure it to the cabinetry, and maybe a couple on the side. The back screws are probably just for a little stability.
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Post by laknox on Nov 13, 2018 10:54:04 GMT -5
The microwave doesn't have bolt holes on the top or sides, does it? I would think it would have at least 4 bolts available on the top to secure it to the cabinetry, and maybe a couple on the side. The back screws are probably just for a little stability. I was thinking the same thing. If there are a couple more holes in the top, I'd consider putting some 1/4 or 3/8 plywood in the cabinet overhead and screw to that. Pics of how it's attached at the top would be helpful. Lyle |
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Post by luckydawg on Nov 13, 2018 11:44:48 GMT -5
Thanks johnr and Lyle. There are 2 long screw through the upper cabinet, but they are toward the front of the unit and act as a pivot point so they started tearing out the cabinet bottom when the wall support gave way. I obviously need to install a second layer of ply to the cabinet bottom. Unfortunately no mounting holes on the sides of the oven. The lower wall support bracket is a key part.
I was able to find 1 vertical stud within the area of the oven bottom bracket. I'm thinking I will re-attach the mounting bracket to that stud with a 1/4" self tapping screw and add a piece of aluminum angle to act as a ledger across the width of the wall catching this same stud and another at the cabinet to the right. That should support it better than the window blind did....
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Post by laknox on Nov 14, 2018 10:17:09 GMT -5
Thanks johnr and Lyle. There are 2 long screw through the upper cabinet, but they are toward the front of the unit and act as a pivot point so they started tearing out the cabinet bottom when the wall support gave way. I obviously need to install a second layer of ply to the cabinet bottom. Unfortunately no mounting holes on the sides of the oven. The lower wall support bracket is a key part. I was able to find 1 vertical stud within the area of the oven bottom bracket. I'm thinking I will re-attach the mounting bracket to that stud with a 1/4" self tapping screw and add a piece of aluminum angle to act as a ledger across the width of the wall catching this same stud and another at the cabinet to the right. That should support it better than the window blind did.... Given that you've got a brand new rig, I think I'd let the dealer take care of it, using your suggestions. Either that, or submit a bill for your time and materials to KZ. I think $100/hr would be fair and probably cheaper than they'd be paying the dealer. Lyle |
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Post by johnr on Nov 15, 2018 7:50:46 GMT -5
Man, I can't believe a microwave that size only has 2 bolt holes on the top!
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Post by luckydawg on Nov 16, 2018 1:36:06 GMT -5
johnr, yes, only 2 and in the front no less. The bracket at the bottom rear of the unit is critical. I was able to attach my angle support to a stud and to the cabinet so it is practically hidden. More importantly I salvaged my trip next week.
Lyle - I like your style! Unfortunately a trip to the dealer will take the unit out of commission for at least a couple of months and they likely will not do the job as well as I did it. I don't expect KZ to reimburse me, it is just disappointing to have to treat a brand new trailer like a fixer upper. Chalk it up to RV life I guess.
Thank you all for listening. Sometimes you just need to talk these things out!
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Post by laknox on Nov 16, 2018 10:00:44 GMT -5
johnr, yes, only 2 and in the front no less. The bracket at the bottom rear of the unit is critical. I was able to attach my angle support to a stud and to the cabinet so it is practically hidden. More importantly I salvaged my trip next week. Lyle - I like your style! Unfortunately a trip to the dealer will take the unit out of commission for at least a couple of months and they likely will not do the job as well as I did it. I don't expect KZ to reimburse me, it is just disappointing to have to treat a brand new trailer like a fixer upper. Chalk it up to RV life I guess. Thank you all for listening. Sometimes you just need to talk these things out! Glad you've got it fixed, and to your satisfaction. I'm hoping that you documented everything you did and, seriously, you should send a report, with as many pictures as you have, to KZ. I like your comment "it is just disappointing to have to treat a brand new trailer like a fixer upper" and you should repeat it to KZ, often. Throw in a "my name's not Chip", too.  Lyle |
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Post by Chuck on Nov 17, 2018 14:16:14 GMT -5
luckydawg I agree this is an issue that needs to be addressed across the board, this is a heavy peace of hardware an having it come down wouldn't be fun at all, as well a safety issues which I believe this would be ... I will have to look at ours an see if I can upgrade the installation somewhat as you have done ... We have not had the problem yet an I agree it's not what should have been done, possibly a backing plate attached to the frame an then the Microwave attached to the backing plate would have been the proper way of attaching such with heavier peace of plywood up top for anchors ... If you look at your dishwasher it is held in by two screws at the top into a 2inch by 1 inch board under the counter, I reinforce this with another peace across the back of such, put metal angles across the back on each side an then a 1 x 2 inch cross wood strip across the bottom for extra bracing ... Also if you look at your bed hinge, both jetzen an I have added an upgraded screws to the hinge since there was only screws in every other screw hole, at least in ours ... Also glued an screwed the uprights that holds
the bed up when lifted thanks to Edd505 for letting us know he had a problem ...
Most of these things have been relayed to the Kz managers in discussions one on one at the rally, an you are right, Kz listens to people at the rally an being right under their wing it seems to help allot pointing at the problem or problems ... But I will say that there is at least one Kz Manager that reads the posts on this form an is aware of different problems addressed here... He has stated an been known to pass such on to other managers within Kz in an
effort to improve the product, do they listen to him, I would hope so ...
But I have to say looking at other MFG's when buying our G384RLT I believe it had a better build quality overall than the others we looked at, flaws as we all know yes, but far less ... Read some of the other Trailer forms like the Forest River form which covers over I believe 20 brand names or the Good Sam Form, or IRV2 form, or even Montana form, they all have their problems in more ways than you can think of, but Kz in many ways seems to have far less, maybe because they build less, but never the less fewer overall because I believe they care...
I also believe the dealer is 98 percent of what the buyer see in a product, bad dealer bad product no matter how good the product is ... I dislike our dealer an have made no bones about it to Kz, Kz has stated that if I wanted my trailer worked on they were willing to work with any RV repair shop or dealer other than the one we bought from if they would except their warranty service even if they didn't sell Kz products ...
So I have to say their are not many RV MFG's that will do such only a rare few of the high end guy's besides Kz ...
Safe Travels 
Chuck
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Post by luckydawg on Nov 18, 2018 12:46:32 GMT -5
Chuck,
I appreciate your comments. I will be traveling up I-5 north of Los Angeles this week which is a rough road. I will report back to let you know how the microwave fared.
The interesting thing about the microwave install that I would love to pass along, is that it was obviously installed without any regard for proper support. When I took it the rest of the way off the wall I couldn't figure out why the lower support bracket was stuck to the back of the microwave. What I found was that this bracket was screwed to the oven first, then someone ran screws through the bottom sheetmetal of the oven behind the vent filters (not where screws were intended to go)and through the bracket going outward into the wall without regard for trying to catch a support member. I'm actually amazed that it survived the initial trip from the factory to my dealer on the west coast.
Thanks for mentioning the dishwasher and the bed hinges. I will take a look at those for sure. In searching I see that you have made the same MorRyde suspension upgrades that I am eyeing. I'd love to hear your feedback on how well you like them.
I totally agree with your comments on dealers. I think they are all worthless. At least all of the ones I have ever dealt with. I see that you are very involved with providing feedback to KZ to help improve their product. I think that is great. Keep up the good work. When we first started discovering problems with our trailer I started searching again and can't find a trailer in this price point that I would like better. There is Luxe, but I could buy 2 KZ's for the cost of one of those. I am confident that we will work through our issues and love the trailer.
Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving in the event I am not online next week!
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Post by laknox on Nov 19, 2018 11:37:16 GMT -5
Chuck, I appreciate your comments. I will be traveling up I-5 north of Los Angeles this week which is a rough road. I will report back to let you know how the microwave fared. (snipped) Earlier this year, I towed our 30' gooseneck up to our ranch near Porterville and the 210 was a lot worse than I-5 until just S of the Grapevine. I-5 over the Vine was pretty rough. N of the Vine to B'field was actually pretty good, at least to the 99 junction. :-) Lyle |
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Post by Chuck on Nov 20, 2018 15:46:23 GMT -5
Chuck, I appreciate your comments. I will be traveling up I-5 north of Los Angeles this week which is a rough road. I will report back to let you know how the microwave fared. The interesting thing about the microwave install that I would love to pass along, is that it was obviously installed without any regard for proper support. When I took it the rest of the way off the wall I couldn't figure out why the lower support bracket was stuck to the back of the microwave. What I found was that this bracket was screwed to the oven first, then someone ran screws through the bottom sheetmetal of the oven behind the vent filters (not where screws were intended to go)and through the bracket going outward into the wall without regard for trying to catch a support member. I'm actually amazed that it survived the initial trip from the factory to my dealer on the west coast. Thanks for mentioning the dishwasher and the bed hinges. I will take a look at those for sure. In searching I see that you have made the same MorRyde suspension upgrades that I am eyeing. I'd love to hear your feedback on how well you like them. I totally agree with your comments on dealers. I think they are all worthless. At least all of the ones I have ever dealt with. I see that you are very involved with providing feedback to KZ to help improve their product. I think that is great. Keep up the good work. When we first started discovering problems with our trailer I started searching again and can't find a trailer in this price point that I would like better. There is Luxe, but I could buy 2 KZ's for the cost of one of those. I am confident that we will work through our issues and love the trailer. Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving in the event I am not online next week! luckydawg
I hope things go well for you, I am not the only one that has input with Kz, many of the owners who attend the National Kz rally
have input as do the owners on this board ... As well some but not Kz managers do read these posts an pass on comments made by owners on this form ...
On the MorRyde suspension I am a believer as is Ronc an nvguy an a few others, so far my SRE4000 an X-factor cross members has preformed as advertised an I am happy with such, but I only have about 700 miles since installed ... I will say that the X-factor
cross members so far has taken out the cracking an popping that I had when making tight turns backing into places or making a
very hard shape turn ... I as you may have read I put the 18K MorRyde pin box on before the trailer left the dealer an put about 2000 miles on the LCI pin box for a short time in fear of LCI not honor my warranty, I found this not to be true an switched back to
the MorRyde Pin Box ... I will say I feel that the MorRyde pin box gave me a slightly better advantage over the LCI with much less
chucking overall even with the LCI Suspension still attached to the trailer ...
I will add that I was shocked that the spring bushings were shot when I had my suspension system changed out, nvguy also made the statement his was also shot an he had far less mileage on his 2500 than we had on our 384... So if nothing else I would check your bushings if you have over 5 or 6K on them or less if you feel they are not right, like a a boy Scout you should be always prepared ... I also believe that what I spent on the the MorRyde suspension an X-factory cross members was well worth every penny I spent on them an I have three year warranty besides if they fail now which is also a plus since my 2 year warranty will be up in February 2019 from Kz ...
Happy thanksgiving an enjoy your family an the time with them
Chuck
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Post by luckydawg on Mar 22, 2019 22:30:12 GMT -5
Chuck,
I haven't been on the site for a while, but you sold me on the suspension mods. My trailer is in the shop right now getting the SRE4000s, 3 X-factor braces and the shackle/wet bolt kit. Can't wait to see the results. Pulling it out this last time the thing was squeaking like it was 10 years old, so I can only imagine what the nylon bushings look like. Decided to get it done before we head to Texas this summer.
BTW, so far so good on the microwave mods. 4 months later it is still solid. Yay!
Craig
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Post by Chuck on Mar 23, 2019 13:13:23 GMT -5
Craig Glad to hear that your repair worked out for you, wonder if you looked at the dishwasher an bed hinged We now have over 1000 miles on the suspension an I'm very happy with it so far, friends of our last week while camping with us made the comment that they heard no cracking or popping when I back into a site next to them, they ask what I had did I showed them the MorRyde setup an they were so impressed that I believe they are going to get the X-factor cross members this coming month installed as well as possibly the SRE4000 suspension wet bolt kit... They also have the LCI frame an suspension on a Forest
River 5th wheel an have had a number of miles on their 5th wheel an he is starting to worry about bushings an such ...
As an added note, they are not happy at all with their Forest River 5th wheel, they have had tons of problems from the start with it an the dealer they bought it from stop selling RV's an switched to cars an trucks ... They have almost re-built their trailer inside an out, replacing inside trim, dinning table, chairs, kitchen counters, lights, bed foundation an many other things that I can't remember as he keeps listing them LOL ... I added why in the world do you keep the trailer, his comment back, he had fixed everything an they now have a new trailer four years old that was built by him LOL
Be interesting to know what your bushings look like when they are replaced an how may miles you had on them so we all have another reference point at least by three or four of us ...
Safe travels an look forward to your comments on the matter
Chuck
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