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Post by laknox on Aug 7, 2018 12:30:25 GMT -5
So, we did our annual boondocker with DW's family this past weekend. Everything went pretty well, though the front vent that I dinged on a branch at my dad's house a couple weeks ago, dripped a bit. It was dented in, which allowed the rim not to seal real well (not that it seals real well to begin with, since there's about a 3" gap in the gasket) and allowed some water to splash in during a mild rain.
The =real= issue we had is that we ran out of fresh water our last night there. With 15 more gallons than our old FW, I figured that it wouldn't be a problem. I was on people to be as "water aware" as possible, and we used hand sanitizer instead of washing in most cases. As I was filling up, I noticed that a =lot= of water seemed to be venting out the overflow. Gauge did report full when we were setting up. Has anyone reported siphoning of fresh water after filling? Has anyone reported that their tanks were NOT the stated capacity? Very disappointing.
As for filling when you don't have a hose, is there any sort of check valve/backflow preventer on the inlet that requires pressure to open? If so, how =much= pressure does it take? I'm seriously considering setting up a flow meter of some sort (if not too expensive) and getting an actual measurement of how much water goes into the tank, and putting a bucket under the overflow to see how much comes =out=.
Lyle
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Post by lynnmor on Aug 7, 2018 14:30:41 GMT -5
Do you fill the tank by the pressure fill method?
In other words, do you attach the hose to the usual city water connection and open a valve to direct the water to the fresh water tank?
The vent you mention, is it an open pipe or two sticking out the bottom, or is it a vent next to a fill cap on the side of the trailer?
Do you simply squirt water into a port after removing the cap to fill the tank?
KZ tried some silly things over the years, and I need those answers to better help you.
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Post by laknox on Aug 7, 2018 15:27:16 GMT -5
Do you fill the tank by the pressure fill method? In other words, do you attach the hose to the usual city water connection and open a valve to direct the water to the fresh water tank? The vent you mention, is it an open pipe or two sticking out the bottom, or is it a vent next to a fill cap on the side of the trailer? Do you simply squirt water into a port after removing the cap to fill the tank? KZ tried some silly things over the years, and I need those answers to better help you. My FW is a '17 model, with the so-called "convenience center", with the water fill and flush inlets side x side, and the valves you have to change around, depending on what you want to do. If you believe the printed chart below the valves, I did fully fill my fresh tank, and got a good overflow from underneath...somewhere. Haven't yet crawled under to see exactly where. Given the amount of time I was stopped and, based on my previous experience filling at the same place, it took about the "right" amount of time for ~ 60 gals. When the water overflowed, it did carry on for a bit longer than I thought it would, but I =was= on a slight slope, tail-down, and I also figured that air might have been trapped a bit and could have forced some out. I did =not= wait until it stopped, then try adding more, at a much lower volume, and I know that my old Komfort =would= backflow out the filler neck (old style, with the vent right next to it). I =can= tell you that, next year, when I fill up at the same place, I plan on 1) swapping sides so I'm =nose= down and 2) when I do see the overflow, I'll stop filling, wait until it stops, then open the tap slightly, to see if I get more overflow or if it will take more water. Lyle |
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Post by johnr on Aug 7, 2018 15:54:17 GMT -5
I experienced the same thing in my 2013 Durango last fall while boondocking. Of many boondocking events, it was the first time I've ever had that happen. It would siphon out half of the tank before stopping.
I was using a high capacity pump to fill the tank rather than the standard 12V system I'd used previously. My theory is that it filled so quickly that it blocked up both vents, couldn't suck any air into the tank and compressed in on itself to push the water out.
I did take some proactive measures this year. I took an air compressor and blew air up into both vent tubes, just in case a critter built a nest or something was blocked in there. I've put away the high capacity pump for filling the Durango and only use it for barrel to barrel transfer. I went back to my 12V pump to fill the camper. I haven't had any issues so far this year. I'll be boondocking at the end of this month again, maybe I'll try the high capacity pump at home before going and see if I still have the problem.
If you find something, shout it out because I'd be glad to hear it!
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Post by lynnmor on Aug 7, 2018 16:38:15 GMT -5
Apparently the water is spilling out the vent(s) when the trailer isn’t level and while traveling. You need to see how the vent pipes are routed, and if they simply attach to the tank and go straight down. If they basically go straight down, they will be no way to carry a full tank of water.
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Post by laknox on Aug 7, 2018 16:41:04 GMT -5
I experienced the same thing in my 2013 Durango last fall while boondocking. Of many boondocking events, it was the first time I've ever had that happen. It would siphon out half of the tank before stopping. I was using a high capacity pump to fill the tank rather than the standard 12V system I'd used previously. My theory is that it filled so quickly that it blocked up both vents, couldn't suck any air into the tank and compressed in on itself to push the water out. I did take some proactive measures this year. I took an air compressor and blew air up into both vent tubes, just in case a critter built a nest or something was blocked in there. I've put away the high capacity pump for filling the Durango and only use it for barrel to barrel transfer. I went back to my 12V pump to fill the camper. I haven't had any issues so far this year. I'll be boondocking at the end of this month again, maybe I'll try the high capacity pump at home before going and see if I still have the problem. If you find something, shout it out because I'd be glad to hear it! What 12v pump do you use? Do you use the on-board pump and set up as if you're winterizing and sucking up anti-freeze? I have some 7 gal water totes that I can use to carry extra water, but without a gravity fill, need some way to get the water in. Not sure if there's some sort of backflow or check valve in the inlet that needs some pressure to open it. If not, I'm thinking that a small air compressor might move the water pretty well if only 3-4 psi is needed. Lyle |
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Post by lynnmor on Aug 7, 2018 17:35:18 GMT -5
What 12v pump do you use? Do you use the on-board pump and set up as if you're winterizing and sucking up anti-freeze? I have some 7 gal water totes that I can use to carry extra water, but without a gravity fill, need some way to get the water in. Not sure if there's some sort of backflow or check valve in the inlet that needs some pressure to open it. If not, I'm thinking that a small air compressor might move the water pretty well if only 3-4 psi is needed. Lyle[/quote] There is a check valve in the inlet. I removed mine and added an inline check valve downstream so that I can draw water from a container using the onboard pump and a short hose to the city water inlet. No extra pumps, wiring or switches needed. |
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Post by johnr on Aug 8, 2018 7:02:28 GMT -5
I have a stand-alone 12V pump mounted on a 2x10 board. We have 55 gallon barrels we use for boondocking. I just drop a hose down into the barrel and pump it out.
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Post by laknox on Aug 8, 2018 11:40:53 GMT -5
What 12v pump do you use? Do you use the on-board pump and set up as if you're winterizing and sucking up anti-freeze? I have some 7 gal water totes that I can use to carry extra water, but without a gravity fill, need some way to get the water in. Not sure if there's some sort of backflow or check valve in the inlet that needs some pressure to open it. If not, I'm thinking that a small air compressor might move the water pretty well if only 3-4 psi is needed. Lyle There is a check valve in the inlet. I removed mine and added an inline check valve downstream so that I can draw water from a container using the onboard pump and a short hose to the city water inlet. No extra pumps, wiring or switches needed. [/quote] I =was= wondering if I could use the winterizing inlet for this purpose. Just connect it to one of my blue jugs and draw water in via the internal pump. OR, when you winterize, does that go directly into the plumbing, bypassing the tank? Living in AZ, it's not something I've ever had to do.  As we only 'dock 1 or 2 times a year, and not for more than a few days (Wed - Sun, mostly), we don't really need a lot of spare capacity. I =still= want to meter the water going in, and will likely pick up a meter just to keep in the trailer for this purpose. Lyle |
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Post by laknox on Aug 8, 2018 12:00:57 GMT -5
I have a stand-alone 12V pump mounted on a 2x10 board. We have 55 gallon barrels we use for boondocking. I just drop a hose down into the barrel and pump it out. If the on-board pump can't be used, I'll likely do something like that, though if the check valve doesn't take much pressure to open, using a few psi of air might be easier. Use a 12v compressor, or even a bike pump! :-) Lyle |
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Post by lynnmor on Aug 8, 2018 15:29:14 GMT -5
I =was= wondering if I could use the winterizing inlet for this purpose. Just connect it to one of my blue jugs and draw water in via the internal pump. OR, when you winterize, does that go directly into the plumbing, bypassing the tank? Living in AZ, it's not something I've ever had to do. As we only 'dock 1 or 2 times a year, and not for more than a few days (Wed - Sun, mostly), we don't really need a lot of spare capacity. I =still= want to meter the water going in, and will likely pick up a meter just to keep in the trailer for this purpose. Lyle You should be able to do just that. What I did was remove the check valve from the city water inlet, then added a tee after the inlet and then added an inline check valve beyond the tee. I connected the winterizing hose to the tee. With that done, a short hose can be connected to the city water inlet and run to your jug. While I could have just used the open ended winterizing hose, this is more sanitary and convenient. In my case it was only a tee, check valve and clamps to buy. I can't see your rig from here, so I can't be sure if the above is easy for you. You should explore the tank vents, pouring water on to the road, vehicles behind you and wetting your trailer bottom and brakes is not a good thing. My trailer did just that, maybe yours does not. |
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Post by laknox on Aug 8, 2018 15:45:18 GMT -5
Thanks, lynnmor. I'll have to fill up the tank one of these days and have someone follow me to see if I'm getting anything going overboard. Given the lack of QC in the industry, nothing surprises me.  FWIW, I did =not= notice anything to indicate any dumping, but I drove right at 30 miles from where we watered to our site, the last 8 on a dirt road. Lyle |
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As we only 'dock 1 or 2 times a year, and not for more than a few days (Wed - Sun, mostly), we don't really need a lot of spare capacity. I =still= want to meter the water going in, and will likely pick up a meter just to keep in the trailer for this purpose.
FWIW, I did =not= notice anything to indicate any dumping, but I drove right at 30 miles from where we watered to our site, the last 8 on a dirt road.