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Post by greydog on Jun 23, 2018 15:07:56 GMT -5
Just back from a 1500 mile trip towing our 251 RKS; this makes a total of about 3700 miles on the trailer. Functionally, we have found no fault with the trailer and have enjoyed it very much. It pulls well, and has handled all road condidtions with no issues. All appliances have worked well. The only real problems are those related to poor workmanship and some design features.
For instance: I had intended to install some vent covers prior to this trip but, when I got up on the roof, I found the calking gobbed on so liberally that a decent job couldn't be done without a lot of trimming. It looks as if Miss Buckworth told her kindergarten class, "Today, children, instead of fingerpainting, we are going over to K-Z and put calking on trailer roofs. Those who don't like calking can go wild with a staple gun." The workmanship is that bad. The coat hanger rail in the coat closet turned out to be incapable of holding a coat and it pulled out. I will replace it with a better set-up but I should not have had to do so.
As far as design is concerned, the issues are just minor annoyances. The location of the cabinet over the sink is such that I am nearly concussed just from brushing my teeth. It would be nice if one could access the bathroom with the slide in. The closet on the one side of the bed is not tall enough to hang anything longer than a pair of shorts.
The Andersen hitch is a bit less than satisfactory. With use the friction material used in the damper is exhibiting a degree of stiction which is annoying at best and may even be a functional problem. The squawling noise which accompanies a tight turn is embarassing but, worse than this, the static friction may be affecting the hitch's performance as well. Sway is noticeable at higher speeds when passing and in very windy conditions. Now, to be fair, the higher speeds are inexcess of 75 mph and the winds were generated by a severe storm and were gusting in excess of fifty mph but still.... I'm not giving up on it just yet but I'm not real pleased.
The tow vehicle ( a Ram 3500 diesel) performs well with a couple of caveats. Cruise control results in the truck shifting down more than it should and leaving it off enables me to better fuel economy by about 10%. The other issue is that it is a tire-eating SOB but this may be more a reflection of my throttle control than anything else.
Warnings about potential problems stemming from the rear kitchen (stuff flying around, etc.) have proven to be unfounded. Things have stayed put over some very rough roads and we've been pleased. We still love the layout and will work with it. It is just a bit disappointing to learn we have purchased a travel trailer kit. GD
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Post by lynnmor on Jun 23, 2018 18:35:50 GMT -5
Your floorplan shows the cabinet to the left of the bath sink, is yours directly behind the sink?
Try hooking the bathroom door in the full open position and see if that works. I added a second door thru the bedroom wall between the toilet and the vanity on my 261RKS, yours appears to have less wall space to work with. With the original door hooked open and the added door, I have full use of the trailer with the slide in.
Closet space is tighter on the newer models because they want to pretend that the sloped front is aerodynamic. Find the shortest hangers in both height and width, then hang a shirt on one and then mount the rod as best you can.
I never liked the design of the Andersen because of the way they work the coupler latch and pull on that ridiculous bracket with the chains. Never owned one and likely never will.
If you are towing at 75 mph, that is much faster than experienced drivers run because they know it is unsafe. Also, you might have cheap Chinese trailer tires rated at 65 mph maximum. Be aware that the wheel bearings are Chinese as well and you should service them on day one because there is no way of knowing what kindergarten class did the assembly. After bearing failures from faulty grinding, I replaced all with made in USA Timken.
You might have less down-shifting at a reasonable speed, wind resistance increases at the square of the speed. My Ford 6.7 diesel almost never gets out of sixth gear towing at 62 mph. Rear tire wear is always higher when towing because of the lateral forces from the trailer. Sway control devices add to that tire wear because of the extra force to turn and then to straighten.
I never had significant scattering of goods stored in the kitchen, but I have had the marginally installed shelves break down from the extra bounce. I installed shocks and that helps keep the thing together. You should always view an RV as a heap of cheap materials that needs assembly, then you won't be quite as disappointed.
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Post by greydog on Jun 24, 2018 8:04:34 GMT -5
The cabinet is behind the sink. I can leave the bathroom door open and fasten it back to keep it from banging back and forth. Access is possible by putting the slide out about four inches (neither of us is all that bulky) so it's not a serious issue but the workmanship is. For instance, upon emptying the black tank, I found the hose blocked by a piece of linoleum which had probably been tossed in the tank by a workman at the plant when the trailer was constructed. This four inch, half-moon of material is bagged up and will be returned to the dealer who can send it to K-Z. We should not have had to calk the shower; that should have been done at the plant.
I don't usually cruise at 75 but will do that or more if necessary to pass. The tires are rated at 85 mph. The trailer tracks well but sway is occasionally noticeable. I don't know if the issue is mechanical or areodynamic. I do know that my flat bed trailer, loaded heavily with loads which are far from aerodunamic, never has this problem but it is a better trailer in every way; better tongue and coupler, heavier axles and springs (2x7000 lb), rigid frame, etc.
In this instance, the issue with the Andersen hitch, like many of the trailer issues, appears to be the reult of poor workmanship as much as anything. The finish on the shaft may be too rough and may be the cause of the stiction or it could be that the friction material is simply wrong. This stiction may actually be exacerbating the sway. Today, I'll disassemple the thing, and chuck up the ball and shaft and polish the shaft. I have modified the brackets and am fairly satisfied with them. I'll rotate the tires today and wear out the other pair. I suspect the tire issue is related to the tires (Firestone transforce), in combination with the truck performance, more than anything and I'll replace with a harder, more durable tire which is better suited to long highway trips on bare roads.
The excessive downshifting only occurs when cruise control is used and I've seen the same thing with other cars and trucks. I don't see why the truck should shift down when it is running at the engines peak torque rpm and, with the cruise disengaged, it doesn't happen. If I'm running faster, it doesn't shift down but wind resistance then rears it's ugly head. Kind of a bummer because I do like cruise control, as a rule.
The trailer is warm and comfortable so it has good points as well and, though it might not sound like it, we are generally pleased with it. GD
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Post by greydog on Jun 29, 2018 8:26:39 GMT -5
I dis-assembled the hitch and polished the tapered shaft which rides in the friction material on the hitch. This reduced the stiction, eliminated the noise, and improved sway control. This shaft was left as-turned and , if I had to guess, the feed rate was about .012 IPR or a little more. Consequently, it was just chewing up the friction material.
I built a new hanger rack for the coat closet and, if I wanted, I could hang myself on this baby (I have no plans to do so). I think we'll take a couple of short trips next week to test things out. I really like towing this trailer and have enjoyed the time spent in it so far.
Replaced the POS Firestone tires, on the tow vehicle, with some Goodyears. Can't be worse.
I will have the dealer replace the roofing on the slide-out. It has a large bubble in it. I will have to watch closely to be sure they don't just poke a hole in it to let the air out. GD
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Post by lynnmor on Jun 29, 2018 12:47:09 GMT -5
The downshifting is a result of throttle opening, the cruise will respond to minute changes in speed and a driver will just let it go. At higher speeds, wind buffeting and resistance will cause the throttle to continuously vary even a greater amount to maintain a constant speed. Try driving at 62 MPH when the cruise is shifting too much and see what happens. I gave up the race to get there first years ago and I will not speed up to pass. If I am gaining on a vehicle in front of me, I'll swing out to pass and often they speed up, whatever, I'll get back in line when I can running at my speed.
You do understand machining, I have a tool & die shop and know what you are dealing with. Makes you wonder how others can buy this half-baked stuff and be satisfied with it.
Be sure that you differentiate between true sway and movement from various wind currents. Real sway is usually the result of too little tongue weight and can get out of control regardless of wind. Cross winds will come and go and you might make things feel better by running a tight sway control, but you will not eliminate those forces anymore than a barn can.
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Post by Chuck on Jul 1, 2018 11:16:57 GMT -5
I have a 20ft flat bed trailer, if loaded wrong it will sway thus like lynnmor stated if you do not have the tongue weight you have sway ... With TT some sway is the nature of the beast when semi trucks pass you, in strong cross winds, but think about what lynnmor stated tighten up your sway control ... No matter what I am towing, flat bed trailer or 5th wheel I drive about a steady speed of 65, I'm not one to be 1st, I get there when I get there, I feel way more relaxed when I do such than fight the traffic ...
I also find using the right lane most of the time in traffic gets you ahead of the game, cars an
off exits somewhat speeds you up ... The traffic getting on is less than the cars an trucks getting of thus you move ahead of the other lanes in most case's but not all ... Try it some time you will be surprised, trust me LOL, of course there are always exceptions to the rule  Safe Travels Chuck |
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Post by greydog on Jul 1, 2018 13:06:58 GMT -5
I have had a near death experience with a flatbed trailer on which I had let the dealer load a Bobcat and I did not check the weight distribution. At 60 mph, that puppy started swaying to the point the tires were howling. I was able to time the sway and apply the brakes at the right time to slow down and get it under control. I then moved the machine forward a foot and all was well. I have never let anyone load anything for me since!
In very windy conditions, sway was not unduly affected in the wind (and conditions around some of the big storm cells were VERY gusty). The improvement from smoothing up the shaft was marked. From the outset, I've been a bit cautious when meeting or overtaking large trucks but have had no real issues under these circumstances.
I load to get weight on the tongue as much as possible and the Spree seems well set up in this regard. I try to avoid letting the kitchen grey water tank get too full since this is behind-the-axle weight. With this hitch, friction is increased along with tongue weight so the added weight is the gift that keeps on giving.
We got a recall notice on the awning. Apparently, under some circumstances, and given some bad luck, the awning can deploy when driving. Another reason to favor the old hand-crank awning system. I'll go to the dealer for the fix. A good excuse to get some more travel time in! Although I may seem to be a bit critical, the truth is, we like the trailer and the scales are definitely biased toward the good side. More time will give us more of a feel for it. GD
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Post by myredracer on Jul 3, 2018 13:32:28 GMT -5
Gil, Deb and Dougal the Springer Spaniel
2014 KZ Spree 262RKS
2009 F250
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Post by myredracer on Jul 3, 2018 14:09:16 GMT -5
We have a 261RKS Spree which is the same basic trailer layout as the Connect 251. I've read many say the Anderson WDH is only good up to around 600 lbs TW. What is the actual TW? Our actual TW is around 950 lbs which is approaching double the dry TW. We have a Reese dual cam WDH with 1200 lb bars and love it. We have zero sway and the handling is excellent on the twistiest of roads at speed. Strong gusting side winds will always be a challenge for WDHs and best thing is to slow way down or pull over. If you're not, run the TT at max. sidewall psi (except if rated 80 psi check rim rating) and run truck tires at or near max psi for towing.
We also installed the Dexter equalizer wet bolt kit and shocks which make a huge difference. Don't get much bounce in the tail anymore but arrived at a CG a few days ago to find that the upper cabinet doors had opened and closed on some bumpy roads we were on and had a few cups & mugs on the floor. For some weird reason, the rod for opening and closing the rear blinds jumps off the hook once in a while. I need to pinch the hook together. I've replaced almost all of the cheapo roller latches with Southco Grabber latches which have a much higher holding strength.
I could write a book on all the issues we've had with our Spree. Some I can't discuss due to an NDA and have had many many minor issues. Once I went to make the bed, flicked the sheet against the headboard and it fell clear off the wall! Our bathroom door leans out by about 5/8" at the top and won't stay closed unless you push the door closed. Our dealer refused to fix it and said "it's just a travel trailer". Our awning made a LOUD moaning/groaning sound from day one every time we extended and retracted it. Three trips to the dealer and they couldn't fix it. A call to Carefree was of no help. I told our dealer the shock struts were the problem but they ignored me so I bought a pair of used struts and just recently installed one of them which eliminated the noise on that side.
We do love our 261RKS layout and is perfect for two. Have done lots of mods, some basic and some complex ones like built-in electric heat, water filtration and new cabinetry. Replaced the jacknife sofa last season with a Harrison double recliner with power recline. Excellent upgrade!
Happy camping.
Gil, Deb and Dougal the Springer Spaniel
2014 KZ Spree 262RKS
2009 F250
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Post by Chuck on Jul 6, 2018 11:17:29 GMT -5
Our dealer refused to fix it and said "it's just a travel trailer"  no way would I have excepted such. this is another reason for the Good an Bad Dealer postings on the form
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