|
|
Post by brianr on May 9, 2018 17:45:49 GMT -5
I've seen a couple other threads on this subject elsewhere on the interwebs. Just thought I'd ask here if anyone has done something similar or has any other ideas. If you have moved your battery to the rear bumper, I'd like to see how you did it, if it requires fabbing parts or if you bought them off the shelf. I recently bought a KZ Spree Escape 18RBT. It has an advertised dry tongue weight of 350 lbs. My tow vehicle's max hitch weight is also 350 lbs. This is a problem. I actually measured the tongue weight on a bathroom scale, which came in at 360 lbs. Not sure how full the LP tank is right now, but the camper is otherwise completely empty. Here's a floorplan: www.rvguide.com/specs/sites/rv/images/data/floorplan/2013_KZ_SpreeEscape_E18RBT.jpgThe axle is basically in line with the rear edge of the kitchen sink window and forward wall of the bathroom. I was thinking of relocating the battery to the rear bumper (or possibly *near* the rear bumper, under the frame since there's no real place inside behind the axle to put it, not to mention I'd have to cut a hole for venting.) I realize it's a rougher ride back there and the bumper was not really designed to take heavy loads. And yes I'm aware that I need to keep trailer-sway in mind. But something needs to be done because as it stands, I can only safely tow this thing empty. There are some brackets made by Mount-n-Lock that reinforce the bumper. I was also considering, instead of 1 large 96 Ah battery, splitting that up into 3 (or 4) smaller 35 Ah sealed AGM or gel-cell batteries that would not overhang the bumper and could spread out the weight a little more. AGM or gel batteries can better deal with the added shock and vibration, and would not pose as much risk if the trailer got rear-ended. By my weight & balance calcs, removing the lead-acid battery from the front and replacing with 3x 35Ah AGM batteries on the bumper should reduce the hitch weight by at least 75 lbs, and the resulting tongue weight percentage (of empty weight) would drop to 10.3%, which is close to the minimum (I always see 10-15% quoted as the range to stay within) so any additional water or cargo would bring that back up because most of the storage area is forward of the axle. I could use the floor space in the bathroom/shower, or the floor space by the door which would be annoying, but everything else is forward. A full fresh water tank would contribute 48.6 lbs to the hitch weight. A full hot water tank would add another 32.5 lbs (it's much smaller, but further forward). Depending on how much other cargo I load this thing with, I was thinking about storing some jugs of water in the shower for travel, and using those to fill up the 6-gal hot water tank upon arrival. My desire is to travel with a full fresh water tank for boondocking but would leave it mostly empty for destinations that have water available. Any other ideas, or advice on my plan? I'm handy with electrical and am confident in my ability to perform this mod. |
|
|
|
Post by lynnmor on May 9, 2018 19:02:43 GMT -5
Welcome.
Maybe you should tell us more about your tow vehicle, weight distributing hitch and other details. If the weight of a battery causes you to have concerns, perhaps you have a very marginal combination.
|
|
|
|
Post by brianr on May 9, 2018 22:04:40 GMT -5
The tow vehicle is a 2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (4-door), manual transmission with the "max tow" package, which simply means it has a receiver and 3.73 gears (but I may change the gears when I get new tires). It has a 3500 lb tow rating, 350 lb max hitch weight. Camper has an empty weight of 2690 lb, GVWR of 3500 lb, and a dry hitch weight of 350 lb. So yes, you might call it marginal, but it's doable, and if the hitch weight were reduced, should not need a WD hitch. Camper has trailer brakes, and I just purchased a Tekonsha P3 brake controller and harness. There are very few stock HTT's that are towable by a Wrangler Unlimited -- Most of them are RPod's. My wife and I liked the layout of the KZ better. To use Rpod as an example, I know of several Wrangler owners, including my neighbor that tow Rpods that are heavier than my KZ... the one big difference is that most of them have a lighter dry hitch weight. In fact, if you google pictures of Rpod's, many of them don't have a battery up front -- just propane. By moving my battery back, the KZ would be very similar to those. I do not have a WD hitch, but it does have a friction anti-sway. I'm not sure how I feel about WD. My neighbor uses one and swears by it, but I have not been able to get a straight answer on whether the Jeep's receiver and frame is rated for one. Theoretically, it's this one, which says it can be used with WD: www.quadratec.com/products/12015_100_07.htmBut, on the Jeep forums there are warnings about possibly bending the frame. Also keep in mind that most WD hitches are upwards of 60 lbs by themselves, which sorta negates what I'm trying to accomplish. Airbags inside the coil springs may be another option, but is less effective. |
|
|
|
Post by lynnmor on May 10, 2018 7:51:26 GMT -5
On the web page you quoted it says this: Description 3,500-lb tow rating, 350-lb tongue weight rating with weight distributing equipment; otherwise 2,000-lb tow rating, 200-lb tongue weight rating; 2" opening. Same as Production, Hitch Ball and ball mount sold separately My son pulled a trailer slightly larger than what you have with the same Jeep. It did OK, but he moved to a truck before long. I see that a better receiver is produced, but it still mounts the same way. link I would most definitely use a WDH. While I don't like the Andersen, it is about the lightest out there. Any of the inexpensive brands would be fine, just don't buy one rated any higher than necessary so the bars can flex properly. The bars are actually springs that need to flex so using bars so stiff that they don't flex might be the frame bending problem mentioned. As you already know, tongue weight should be 10% to 15% of total trailer weight. Since you have a short wheelbase tow vehicle, I would like to see about 13% minimum. Moving weight to the rear might impact safety. To set up a WDH, measure ride height empty and them adjust the weight transfer so that the FRONT of the Jeep comes back down between 50% and 75% of what it raised when the trailer is attached. Then add air bags or springs to the rear only if necessary. Finally, readjust the weight distribution with the added springing. |
|
|
|
Post by wazkaren on May 10, 2018 8:41:02 GMT -5
I don't have an answer to your question but I have a similar setup and trailer and thought I'd pass on my very limited experience. I bought a Sportsmen Classic 160rbt last year, very similar to yours. I'm pulling with a Mazda CX-9, towing capacity of 3500 lbs and max tongue of 350. When I measured the tongue weight of the trailer (with full hot water, empty fresh water) I found I'm about 375 lbs. I had considered moving the propane tank into the trailer while traveling to reduce tongue weight but decided I didn't want to mess with the balance (I'm not as confident in my calculations). With propane in the back the tongue measured 350. Instead I followed the trailer dealer's recommendation and I got this WDH: www.reeseprod.com/products/weight-distribution/light-duty-wd/weight-distributing-kit-light-weight/xihofqeC8HJjZZHcC5mjH1hAUzBjJfsG. I also had concerns about the frame but both the Mazda dealer and trailer dealer have never heard of issues with a WDH. (I usually don't trust dealers but the trailer dealer has been in business for a long time with good reviews). Some people on the Mazda forum also pointed out the frame concern but I never found any actual reported frame problems. I did about 1000 miles with this setup last summer and so far no problems. Pulling the trailer was no problem, felt very stable and safe. I hardly even notice tractor trailers passing. My only problem is that the CX-9 transmission runs a bit hot but the Mazda dealer says it's OK and recommends yearly trans fluid change. My plan is another summer with the Mazda and then, like lynnmor's son, get a better tow vehicle. BTW, my wife and I love our trailer. I think you'll enjoy it. Greg |
|
|
|
Post by brianr on May 10, 2018 10:04:27 GMT -5
While I don't like the Andersen... May I ask why? There seems to be lots of folks running that one. Since it's not the cheapest, it must have something going for it. |
|
|
|
Post by lynnmor on May 10, 2018 10:42:43 GMT -5
While I don't like the Andersen... May I ask why? There seems to be lots of folks running that one. Since it's not the cheapest, it must have something going for it. Look how it pulls against the ball latch, some models of couplers actually are not recommended for use with the Andersen. Now look at the skinny brackets on the side of the tongue and ask yourself how they won’t move without welding. I use my own judgement when I see marginal products. |
|
|
|
Post by brianr on May 10, 2018 11:39:49 GMT -5
I dunno, it looks ingeniously simple to me. According to their FAQ, for 99.9% of the couplers out there, the force is on the rear upper corner of the coupler, instead of the latch assembly. I believe it would work well for mine. As for the tongue brackets, the installation manual says you can optionally weld them, which I'd probably do. The brackets look like 3/8" or 1/2" thick steel and have a pointed set screw that goes into a pre-drilled hole. With that much clamping force from the top & bottom bolts, there's no way the set screw can move, thus the brackets won't move. (If it didn't have the set screw or weld, then you would be right, there'd be nothing but friction keeping them in place. I'm a spacecraft mechanisms engineer, and we are not allowed to rely on friction for anything).
|
|
|
|
Post by nvguy on May 10, 2018 23:17:18 GMT -5
From what I can see about the Anderson, it serves more as a controller of sway and bounce rather than a true weight distribution hitch. In your case, it seems that weight distribution is needed to transfer some of the tongue weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle.
|
|
|
|
Post by brianr on May 11, 2018 10:09:02 GMT -5
I believe it's only when you're on the heavy end of tongue weight, or if the red urethane springs aren't compressed properly, that it doesn't transfer enough weight to the front. For everything under 500 lbs, I'm only reading rave reviews about the Andersen. I can't justify the cost of a Hensley. And a better tow vehicle is not in the cards right now.
Doing some more research it seems that many Jeepers are using a WD hitch with no problems. I haven't found any reports of bending the crossmember.
I'm still wondering if I need to move the battery to the rear, even with a WD hitch. Using a WD hitch doesn't magically lighten the trailer's hitch weight, it simply adds an additional moment-load (torque).
|
|
|
|
Post by ronc on May 11, 2018 14:03:22 GMT -5
I’m not a travel trailer guy, so the only thoughts that I could offer to this discussion is when you move the battery, you will need to be mindful of the gauge of the wire from the rear mounted battery. That sounds like a long run of wire and you will get a voltage drop, which can be reduced by going to a much bigger wire gauge. A multimeter is your friend. Good luck with your project.
|
|
|
|
Post by brianr on May 29, 2018 18:00:27 GMT -5
Thought I'd post a follow-up. I just finished moving the battery to the rear bumper. I used some aluminum I had from another project (can't remember if it's 3/8" or 1/2") to make a couple of simple brackets, attached to the bumper with some 3/8" square U-bolts. I used 6-AWG wire in split-loom to go from the battery's previous location back to the rear. Locktite or locking nuts on all fasteners. Haven't driven with it yet, but I will be mindful of loading it properly and determine the hitch weight, and check the battery mount during stops. If something doesn't look right, it would be easy to put it back. photos.app.goo.gl/w7t3yPW4jHCy55rD3 |
|
|
|
Post by johnr on May 30, 2018 6:51:03 GMT -5
Keep an eye on that bumper for twisting or stress fractures, especially if you use that bolt on receiver for anything.
|
|
|
|
Post by brianr on Jun 5, 2018 16:04:38 GMT -5
I read in the manual that the bumper can carry 100 lbs. Not sure if that includes the spare tire. The battery took about 50. So theoretically it should be ok as-is. I don't plan on using the receiver for anything -- my hitch bike rack weighs 50 lbs all by itself, with no bikes.
|
|
