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Post by durbs75 on Apr 16, 2018 11:50:22 GMT -5
Good afternoon!! New to the KZ forum! I did a search already and found only one semi related answer to my question. I am in the research phase right now looking at KZ Durango Gold 5ers and 2 other manufacturers as well and I have a question regarding the frame and chassis.
I know Lippert makes the chassis for the Durango Gold line as well as most other manufacturers chassis'. I know Lippert has a history with of bad craftsmanship and quality control on their frames and other rv components. Have any of you who have the Golds, ever had issues with the frame cracking or components of the frame crack or break? Welds breaking? I ask because on one of the other manufacturers Facebook owner's group page, there is a big discussion going on about a unit that is only 20 days old and has less than 700 miles on it with the framework cracking and welds breaking. The frame is Lippert.
Much to my happiness right now, I haven't found any occurrence with a KZ DG product (based on KZ Facebook owner group and a search in this forum). If in the event you have had problems with a frame cracking or welds breaking, what was the resolution and how was it handled? Thanks!
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Post by jetzen on Apr 16, 2018 14:50:25 GMT -5
durbs75
If you look hard enough you will find frame problems with all manufacturers. KZ DG is one of the few that use a semi custom frame manufactured by Lippert. Some manufacturers use a stock frame and build their coach around that. The DG does not. It is a 10" I beam that is stacked on a 2" box tube in high stress areas. The drop frame is a 8" I beam that is stacked on the 10" beam for half of its length. It also incorporates more crossmembers then it compitition. The nose i do believe is a 6" reinforced box tube.There is a thread in the Durango folder with someone concerned about frame flex, but it has yet to be determined the exact problem. Do data I personally do not know of any frame problems.
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Post by durbs75 on Apr 16, 2018 17:09:11 GMT -5
Jetzen, that is good info to hear. Before joining this forum, I was in contact with Walter Conrad (also a member of this forum I assume) and we messaged back and forth A LOT. He mentioned the frame is different than most other manufacturers frames and is as you mentioned!! This gives me a lot more confidence of a stronger frame coupled with KZ being a little lighter in weight that the competition, eases the tension and stress on the frames. Thank you for the info!!!
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Post by jetzen on Apr 16, 2018 18:42:42 GMT -5
Jetzen, that is good info to hear. Before joining this forum, I was in contact with Walter Conrad (also a member of this forum I assume) and we messaged back and forth A LOT. He mentioned the frame is different than most other manufacturers frames and is as you mentioned!! This gives me a lot more confidence of a stronger frame coupled with KZ being a little lighter in weight that the competition, eases the tension and stress on the frames. Thank you for the info!!! Oh, that guy, I don't know if I would put too much stock in anything he says. LOL. |
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Post by durbs75 on Apr 16, 2018 18:56:12 GMT -5
Jetzen, I won't tell him you said that!! HAHA!!!!!
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Post by jetzen on Apr 16, 2018 18:59:28 GMT -5
OK all fun and games aside, had I known who I was responing to i would have let someone else answer first. KZ's way of doing things is KZ'S way of doing things. They are no strangers to building high end 5th wheels. You will find answers all over the map on this one and maybe the best answer you will get is to go to the factory take a tour and see for yourself as to how they are built. KZ and all the others you are interested in. Oh and by the way I am Walter.
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Post by durbs75 on Apr 16, 2018 19:20:44 GMT -5
Well well!!! I told you I would join!! HAHA!! Thanks again and I look forward to more research on this forum. You were right, there is a lot of good info here compared to the Facebook page.
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Post by Edd505 on Apr 16, 2018 19:31:06 GMT -5
I don't think you will ever make a zero defect mass produce anything. If it was a common safety thing, I think broken frames would qualify. there would be a government recall to fix it. KZ has been good about fixing problems, not necessarily at a dealer.
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Post by jetzen on Apr 16, 2018 20:28:54 GMT -5
You will find plenty of problems with Lippert 5th wheel frames on the internet but, nothing specifically affecting DG frames. They are all about other 5th wheel manufacturers.
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Post by durbs75 on Apr 17, 2018 6:28:53 GMT -5
Good morning!! I am finding that to be true. It does look like KZ has the additional supports where needed to alleviate stress where the other manufacturer's frames are failing. This is VERY good news to see and find out. I really need to get to their factory and take a tour. Can you get up close and personal with some of the frames and rigs being built in their different production stages? Thanks!!!!
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Post by jetzen on Apr 17, 2018 8:44:56 GMT -5
Open to the public factory tours at KZ are held on Tuesdays at 2pm.
Depending on what is on the assembly line is what you will see and I don't know if it will be the same tour as the rally had.
The day the rally toured the factory they had Durango 2500's on the line. We were able to touch and crawl through as safety would permit and take limited amounts of photos. |
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Post by Chuck on Apr 17, 2018 11:39:44 GMT -5
durbs75 If you look at the 2017 Kz rally pictures 2017kzrally.shutterfly.com/pictures you will see a DG 2500 frame which was just bought into the production line in picture 148 & 149 ... If you notice the manufacturing floor it pretty darn clean an on this line there was only 12 trailers from start to the end finished production at any time being built at any one time ... Looking at a couple of other manufactures picture of 5th wheels being built I saw possibly a couple of dozen or more being built Ugh ... Safe Travels Chuck |
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Post by durbs75 on Apr 17, 2018 14:31:38 GMT -5
Chuck, yes that is much better in my opinion. I like the slower pace of these units being built. It just makes sense and for the price point they are at, it couldn't be better!!! I need to find time this summer to get up to the factory and take a tour!! I think that will help me a lot as I am a visual person and have lots more questions!!
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Post by Edd505 on Apr 17, 2018 16:29:26 GMT -5
durbs75 If you look at the 2017 Kz rally pictures 2017kzrally.shutterfly.com/pictures you will see a DG 2500 frame which was just bought into the production line in picture 148 & 149 ... If you notice the manufacturing floor it pretty darn clean an on this line there was only 12 trailers from start to the end finished production at any time being built at any one time ... Looking at a couple of other manufactures picture of 5th wheels being built I saw possibly a couple of dozen or more being built Ugh ... Safe Travels Chuck thanks for the link, I wondered about what I missed last year. |
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Post by Chuck on Apr 18, 2018 11:11:22 GMT -5
Hey Edd, I'm the good looking guy in the pictures with the green shirt an White hat, I an ronc here on
the form are in picture 133, I have my back to the camara, also in picture 127, Hildi an I are both in
picture 119, Hildi dozen't need the wheel chair, but at the time was using a cane because of her knee which
had been replaced now, but that was the only place she could sit since there wasn't much seating were we
were sitting....
Walter is in picture 134 an his DW an him are also in picture 118, Walter is also in picture 108 thinking
about eating the food in front of him LOL ... Also Walter an his DW are in picture 117 talking with Jerry
from Louisiana who will be at the rally again this year along with his DW ...
RVDUDE (Darrel) is in picture 121 an 114 with ronc an his DW ....
Safe Travels
Chuck
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Post by ronc on Apr 28, 2018 13:23:28 GMT -5
Just to add my $.02 (which may only be worth $.01) ... I have a 2017 381 REF that we have full timed in for nearly two years. We upgraded the chassis (morRyde Independent Suspension and Disc Brakes), we upgraded the wheels and tires 17.5" high spec Aluminum wheels and Goodyear G114 H rated tires ... so our likely hood for main frame failure is very low. I am a little concerned regarding some slight flexing I am getting near the angle of where the upper deck begins, but NOT profoundly worried. We are going to have Lippert and KZ look it over in August at the Rally, and what I expect is that they will tell me it is normal (which I find believable) ... and they have said that they can strengthen that area if I want (on my dime) which is very likely that I will do that. Short answer ... I think KZ's frames are above average and can be improved on ... which is what I am doing. My rig is a keeper in all other regards. Not being critical of the frame, just giving you my HO.
I will say, IMHO, that an important part of protecting your frame is to have either an air cushioning pin box, or an air ride hitch, which is what I have. The beating the pin box takes from our bad roads can be mitigated to some degree by this cushioning. It's like anything else, the softer you can make the blows, the longer it should last.
UPDATE: At the Rally now. KZ evaluated my flexing issue and in conjunction with Lippert, decided to remove my front end to measure the upper deck flex. Lippert states that 1/4” is acceptable when measured from the front lower corner of the main frame to the back lower corner of the pin box. Mine was flexing 3/8” ... (50% greater than acceptable). They added gussets and rails and plate steel and really strengthened the pin box. The flex measured after the repair was 1/8”. I am now a happy camper. Lippert and KZ did a fantastic job of going the extra mile to fix my problem. I am a KZ owner for life!
BTW, going in, my fear with the flexing was that it was breaking the water seal and causing damage ... after seeing all the upper deck structure fully exposed, there is no wood even close to the bottom of the lower deck. There is no danger of wood damage due to water intrusion along the bottom rail and bottom of the nose cap. But the flexing is another matter So I got the flexing fixed because repeated flexing will lead to stress cracks eventually (think bending a paperclip until it breaks). This would take years, but we are full time and put many towing miles on our rig each year. I have full confidence in KZ’s fix and look forward to many years of stress (pun intended) free towing.
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