mitchl
Newbie RV’er
2017 336RET - 2016 F250
Posts: 8
|
Post by mitchl on Apr 2, 2017 9:03:31 GMT -5
I would really like a 5th wheel with a front kitchen, a dining table with a bench on living room side and 2 chairs on kitchen side. In the living room 2 recliners and opposing air bed sofas. The bedroom of course would be in the rear. It'd be really great if it could be no longer than 39' long!
We recently purchased our first rv - a 5er, for vacationing. We already know when we retire we will be full timers and have given a lot of thought to what we would like in our future home!
|
|
|
Post by Chuck on Apr 2, 2017 11:33:36 GMT -5
mitchl We looked at front Kitchens at the RV Show we went to, I believe they have pretty low overheads in one's we saw and I am only 5'6", the wife is shorter than me an she stated the same thing. I think of it as walking into the bedroom of a 5th wheel but it's the kitchen, most people think those bedroom ceilings are low anyway, I'm not trying to change your mind just giving you an idea at what you are looking at Of course as I always say to each the own, so if you haven't been in one you really don't know of course, but reading what you have stated I'm sure you have been in a few You want room, look at the Durango Gold G383MBQ G384RLT, G381REF, G382MBQ, they may not have the bedroom in the back and the kitchen in the front but there is tons of room. We just bought a G384RLT, the neighbors an our older married kids stated that they had apartments smaller than our trailer when they were young. The other important thing to look at is the trailer warrantied for full time living, I know that our G384RLT is an I am pretty sure the most all the Durango Gold line is, not many are, even the top of the line 5th wheel MFG are not Again, I am not trying to change you mind on what you want, I know it took, a slide in camper, Travel Trailer (TT), a Class C, and two 5th wheels to get were we are at today. Our last 5th wheel before this one was a 2006 which we bought in 2008, it was a nice 33ft trailer, but once in out 40' 4" G394RLT we fell in love. I believe there is not much difference between 39' and 40' till you start living in it, you would be surprised how much that extra foot feels in room LOL ... Happy Camping, hope to see you at the Kz Rally
|
|
mitchl
Newbie RV’er
2017 336RET - 2016 F250
Posts: 8
|
Post by mitchl on Apr 2, 2017 15:00:10 GMT -5
I kind of like the idea of the lower ceiling in the kitchen. I'm 5' 1 1/2" tall and it would be great to be able to reach the top cabinets a little easier and without a step stool.... The length of the trailer isn't a must have thing. We actually have a 35'4" 2017 KZ Durango 336RET now and love it.
Thanks for the input! Good to know someone is truly reading these posts.
|
|
|
Post by Chuck on Apr 2, 2017 22:57:58 GMT -5
Well mitchi 34 people read your post but I was the only one who responded I feel that I'd at least let you know what the DW and I thought when we looked at them, we carry a step stool as well so the DW can get stuff from the upper cabinets that I put stuff in LOL. Our old 5th wheel had the steps right by the cabinets and she would use those allot to store things, the one's over the stove and sink was used for pots and pans and I was always ask to get them ... The other thing I believe is if no one is answering the least I can do is let the person posting knows someone here cares enough to say something right or wrong Safe Travels, maybe we get to me at the Kz Rally this summer or down the road someplace ... Chuck
|
|
|
Post by johnr on Apr 3, 2017 6:52:43 GMT -5
I can't say that I've ever seen a front kitchen on a 5er. I think that would add a lot of weight to the front of the RV, something that we don't want. The appliances are normally kept relatively close to the axle for weight distribution purposes. If you had them all the way front or back, there would have to be a counter-balance.
I do think that the front living rooms are really nice and I'd love to have a back bedroom.
|
|
|
Post by jetzen on Apr 3, 2017 8:04:17 GMT -5
Hi mitchi
The DW and I looked at the front kitchen offered by M-----a and we loved the concept, however we are long timers spending at least 5 months in our 5ver and what we need is storage space, which this model lacks. It is also in a deficit in several other areas. Yes you are correct in thinking that the low ceiling would create a lower cabinet height, it also creates smaller cabinets, a lack of counter space and a smaller basement area. The bedroom is moved to the rear and there is very little clothes hanging storage and the washer/dryer area is in a weird place. And unlike the front living rooms which tend to be lighter in the nose, the front kitchens are nose heavy. I am only 5'7" so I am slightly challenged in the height department and know that it is a real pain to reach those upper cabinets, so I carry a 2 step step ladder and pack things that are used infrequently in those upper cabinet shelves. I like Chuck have a 384rlt and it is just over 40 ft long which seems to be the norm these days and when it is opened up this thing seems HUGE compared to other brands with similar floor plans.
However may I make a suggestion, come to the rally this year and meet with the KZ rep that handles the 5vers. He is a ex M-----a rep/engineer and he is brilliant and always looking for ways to make the product better and more innovative. Plus because I am biased I would like to see as many Durango's, Venoms, Montego Bays, Escalades and Stoneridge there as possible.
|
|
|
Post by Chuck on Apr 3, 2017 12:15:15 GMT -5
Good point johnr and jetzen, I had forgotten how small the cabinets were, there was if I remember a "L" shaped counter which overlooked the main part of the floor. But I do not remeber if it was just a counter or had a sink, and I agree i thought the tongue weight may be more than what my DRW LB 4x4 1 ton could handle ... I agree with jetzen, the Kz Rally would be a great place to talk with the factory reps about new concepts
|
|
|
Post by rvdude on Apr 3, 2017 17:28:26 GMT -5
I have seen a couple of front kitchen fifth wheels (don't remember the make) at the rv show. They do look nice. One thing to think about in addition to storage as mentioned earlier might be the more frequent use of the stairs for those who might have leg/foot/circulation problems or who might be up in years. Every time you need a drink of water, and when you are cooking, etc there will be a lot more trips up and down the stairs than just going to the restroom or bedroom occasionally. I have heard of older people selling their 5th wheels and getting motorhomes for that reason. Just something to think about.
|
|
mitchl
Newbie RV’er
2017 336RET - 2016 F250
Posts: 8
|
Post by mitchl on Apr 3, 2017 18:07:39 GMT -5
Thank you all for your input, definitely food for thought! Luckily we have about 3 years to decide. A lot can change in 3 short years! Happy Camping - Mitchl
|
|
|
Post by Chuck on Aug 16, 2017 10:33:16 GMT -5
mitchl In Sept a new Durango Gold is coming out, a front living room with a bath an a half, it may be a little longer than 40ft not sure. Some of us liked it and some of us didn't, but you might take a look at it when it comes out ... At the Rally besides jetzen who stays in their G284FLT 5 or 6 months out of the year two other who full time in their Durango Golds which were different models which i can not recall right now, maybe jetzen, ronc, or George (Can't remember his handle here on the site) can pipe in and tell you what there likes an dis-likes are an the models they have. We were told at the rally that the G384FLT was selling so well that they were not going to change much of anything except for a few minor changes in light switches which jetzen pointed out Another though came to mind, ronc stated that they would have bought a G384FLT if it had been available when they bought their Durango Gold, but makes me wonder how much weight they would have been pulling with a internal generator on board an some of the other stuff they are hauling around in the one they have now. Our G384FLT is list at 14k GVWR 13k unloaded, add cloths, people in our case dogs an a full load of fuel we would be pushing the limits I believe Chuck & Hildi out an about in Minnesota
|
|
|
Post by ronc on Sept 3, 2017 21:36:24 GMT -5
Weight is an interesting topic. Chuck's GVWR is 14,995 so call it 15,000. Same as my 381REF. We just added the MorRYDE Independent suspension and 8K disc brakes and those modification added 890 lbs to our rig's GVW ... but that weight isn't carried by the frame, it is all unsprung weight ... so it doesn't affect the frame's CCC at all. Manufacturers assume all added weight will be carried by the frame, but in the case of the MorRYDE IS and disc brakes, none of it is carried by the frame, in fact it carries the frame, so no impact on CCC. In this case the rig would weigh 15,890 lbs with a GVWR of 15,000 ... so it is overweight on the scales but from an engineering stand point, it is fine. There is more to the whole weight discussion, but I don't want to go into the concept of engineering safety factors and all that. Suffice it to say that if a trailer comes with two 7,000 lbs axles, and the pin is usually 25% of the total weight, then with the axles maxed out, the GVWR rating should be more like 17,500 than 15,000. Why K-Z rates their rigs as they do involves both marketing and engineering considerations but 15,000 lbs is a very conservative GVWR.
|
|
|
Post by jetzen on Sept 3, 2017 23:36:34 GMT -5
Weight is an interesting topic. Chuck's GVWR is 14,995 so call it 15,000. Same as my 381REF. We just added the MorRYDE Independent suspension and 8K disc brakes and those modification added 890 lbs to our rig's GVW ... but that weight isn't carried by the frame, it is all unsprung weight ... so it doesn't affect the frame's CCC at all. Manufacturers assume all added weight will be carried by the frame, but in the case of the MorRYDE IS and disc brakes, none of it is carried by the frame, in fact it carries the frame, so no impact on CCC. In this case the rig would weigh 15,890 lbs with a GVWR of 15,000 ... so it is overweight on the scales but from an engineering stand point, it is fine. There is more to the whole weight discussion, but I don't want to go into the concept of engineering safety factors and all that. Suffice it to say that if a trailer comes with two 7,000 lbs axles, and the pin is usually 25% of the total weight, then with the axles maxed out, the GVWR rating should be more like 17,500 than 15,000. Why K-Z rates their rigs as they do involves both marketing and engineering considerations but 15,000 lbs is a very conservative GVWR. You are assuming that the axles are the weakest link which may not be the case.
|
|
|
Post by Ron C on Sept 4, 2017 10:06:40 GMT -5
That's a point, but they did put two 7,000 lbs axles on it, and if they are both maxed out, no engineering barriers have been broken ... it should carry 14,000 lbs on the axles. That only leaves 1,000 for the pin, and that's neither reasonable or safe. At a 15,000 ratting (GVWR), you should be able to carry that much and never experience a failure due to overload ... that is because the point at which it will fail is some weight higher than 15,000. Engineers refer to this as the Safety Factor. Steel used in buildings might have a SF of 5-6, the lowest SF I have ever heard of was 1.1 but that was in the aviation world where there is a premium on weight. Most engineers use at least a SF of 1.5 to limit liability. The lowest SF I have ever seen was 1.3. So let's assume that K-Z used 1.3 ... that would make the weight at which failure is assured to be 19,500 lbs GVW. The 4,500 between the rating and the assured failure point is the SF. Borrowing some of that is not uncommon, not advisable, but not uncommon. The reason frames fail is due to transitional loads as the rig goes down the road banging over pot holes and ruts. These transitional loads can be significant and cause stress cracks leading to failures. A high quality trailer suspension with a lot of travel (to keep it off the end of travel), and a cushion hitch (like an air bag hitch) goes a LONG WAY towards mitigating the transitional loads on the frame and pin box.
|
|
|
Post by Chuck on Sept 5, 2017 9:48:39 GMT -5
So Ron
Did your pin weight change any when you put on the MorRyde IS system an 8k disc brakes much, I would think not, but wonder even thought it added 800pds if it shifted anything to the front a bit ...
I'm with you the more bouncing the frame get the weaker over time it becomes because of flex, so the less flex the less stress
Chuck
|
|
|
Post by ronc on Sept 6, 2017 14:51:49 GMT -5
Hey Chuck ... no, my pin weight stayed the same, exactly 3,700 lbs. You got it exactly right ... less flex equals less stress.
|
|
|
|
Post by jetzen on Sept 1, 2019 6:49:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by mkpaint on Sept 1, 2019 7:08:27 GMT -5
On the front anything subject be it kitchen or living room. We have noticed our front living room is hotter by a noticeable difference than when you step down into the kitchen. Our next will have bedroom over the hitch. Our bedroom in rear is coldest place during the day. We ere considering trying to add insulation in front cap since that seems to be where most heat comes from along with short roof height.
|
|
|
Post by laknox on Sept 3, 2019 10:43:58 GMT -5
On the front anything subject be it kitchen or living room. We have noticed our front living room is hotter by a noticeable difference than when you step down into the kitchen. Our next will have bedroom over the hitch. Our bedroom in rear is coldest place during the day. We ere considering trying to add insulation in front cap since that seems to be where most heat comes from along with short roof height. As well as more insulation in the front cap, paint the d@mn thing to match the body and dump the black! You can =feel= the heat radiating from my front wall, even in the shade. Dumbest thing ever and, had I the ready cash, I'd paint that thing in a heartbeat. Lyle
|
|
|
Post by Bounty Hunter on Sept 10, 2019 22:05:52 GMT -5
I don't understand the appeal of a front kitchen. Most people spend most of their time horizontal while in the bedroom and vertical while in the kitchen. Makes sense to save the bedroom for the shortest area. And kitchens are popular places when you have company, so unless all your company is under 5'5".......
|
|