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Post by rhodycampers on Nov 14, 2016 21:45:30 GMT -5
Hi All: Just recently, I noticed perfectly linear horizontal (side to side) roof lines. The lines are slightly raised and contain blotches of black. There are 5 of them along the length of the roof on our 2015 KZ Spree 262 which we've had for 1 year/ 2 seasons. The trailer is parked in our driveway with no trees around. The lines seem to start in the center of the roof and go to the sides. Although they are on both sides of the roof (continuous except where there are center line roof things like the A/C) but more prominent on the left (port) side. The black marks "sort of" came out with some vinyl cleaner but I could still see/feel the raised lines. I would think the lines are the structural struts (trusses?) just underneath the vinyl. Anyone know what's going on? Photos below (extra white around the black marks is from attempts to remove the black marks with cleaners). Thanks, Ken Rhode Island
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Post by lynnmor on Nov 15, 2016 8:24:07 GMT -5
The photos are not high definition, but the lines look indented to me. My thought is that the black is mildew forming in, or next to, the lines. Aluminum framing will cause condensation that will promote mildew growth, but there should be plywood over the aluminum.
My thought is that there is a defect in the plywood or roofing material and it should be replaced before the warranty expires.
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Post by rhodycampers on Nov 15, 2016 8:34:29 GMT -5
John: Thanks for the thoughts. Actually, the black spots are along RAISED areas, rather than indented areas. I realize the photos aren't high def, but wanted to keep them small for the posting. In reality, the black lines actually highlight raised areas that are only as wide as the black lines. I can see/feel the raised areas as if I'm feeling a beam underneath. Are you saying that the construction should be such that starting from outside to inside: there is the vinyl covering then deep to that should be plywood, and then deepest is a beam? Ken
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Post by rhodycampers on Nov 15, 2016 9:01:37 GMT -5
...actually, I just pulled out my ol' KZ brochure with one photo showing the construction of the trailers and it looks like the order is this: Interior most is a flat "Vinyl Interior Ceiling Panel", then there are the "4.5 inch arched aluminum truss rafters, 16" O.C." with "R-7 Batten insulation" between the trusses, then a "3/8" Walkable roof decking", and finally, the "Seamless 1-piece roofing material". So..where do you think the defect might be? I'm going to measure the distance between the black mark/ridges to see if they are spaced by 16" or a multiple of 16" to see if I'm likely feeling the protrusion of the aluminum trusses like I think they are... Ken
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Post by lynnmor on Nov 15, 2016 12:28:25 GMT -5
I wonder if glue they used pushed up where the plywood seams are. When you step on either side of the line, can you detect a flex there? Do you think that mildew is the black substance?
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Post by rhodycampers on Nov 15, 2016 13:12:56 GMT -5
I can't detect flex on either side of the line. As for the black substance, I suppose it could be mildew but I would think that I could remove it easily with the things I tried (Bug/Tar remover, Citrus de-greaser, and lawn furniture cleaner). The lawn furniture cleaner with LOTS of elbow grease using the abrasive side of a kitchen sponge worked the best but still didn't completely remove. I'm home now where the trailer is parked but it's pouring rain today! So, based on your thoughts: 1. I will call dealer and ask if I can send them the higher resolution photos. I can't image I'll get anywhere with this approach as my experience with 2 closest dealers has never been rewarding! Dealing with KZ directly is even more discouraging! 2. Tomorrow I will double check flex on either side of the lines. 3. I will measure the distance between lines to see if it is some multiple of 16 inches (inter-truss distance).
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abs
Weekender RV’er
Posts: 65
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Post by abs on Nov 15, 2016 13:30:12 GMT -5
I sent a post earlier but it must be lost in cyber space. I have the same thing on my Spree. Its been sitting outside for three years. I noticed it (the black lines) the first year I had it. My thoughts are the ac vents leak a lot of air into the attic space, unless you take them off, and seal them the best you can. I believe the cold ac air inside meets with the aluminum trusses and condensate. Same in the cold months. Warm air inside meets cold outside and again condensates. The black has slowed down since I sealed the duct at the vents, but has not stopped. If you find out more I would be interested to know what exactly is going on. Your are right the black is extremely hard to remove. I gave up. I was afraid I would damage the skin on the roof.
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Post by rhodycampers on Nov 15, 2016 13:44:58 GMT -5
I just sent photos to the closest dealership so we'll see what he has to say. I'm not sure what vents you removed and sealed- inside? outside? Also, do you feel/see that these lines are slightly raised on the roof? Ken
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Post by 2ndchance on Nov 15, 2016 14:45:55 GMT -5
I have a 2015 spree connect with the same problem only worse because I live in N. Alabama which is more humid and more conducive to mildew growth. Mine has it around the edges of the roof as well. Surface mildew is easily killed and will vanish before your eyes with just chlorine bleach and water mix. I've used it to clean roofs for 30 plus years. I have tested small areas with Chlorox Cleanup and the surface mildew goes away almost immediately but the larger round black spots remain untouched. My guess is there is a film or skin on the membrane that the mildew has somehow managed to get under so the bleach can't get to it. The raised areas you mention appear to me to be adhesive used to stick the membrane down that was never rolled out properly. I don't think it has anything to do with the mildew. I have the same thing on mine with some raised areas that have no mildew. Anyway It doesn't look to me to be anything that threatens the integrity of the roof so I live with it. We'll see what your dealer says.
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abs
Weekender RV’er
Posts: 65
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Post by abs on Nov 15, 2016 15:46:00 GMT -5
The plastic ac grills in the ceiling of the camper are what I removed. Once you take them down, you can see how conditioned air can escape into the area above the ceiling. I used a commercial grade foam rubber and stuffed it around the duct work. I know it helped direct the cold air into the camper, rather than in the roof space. I would recommend this even if you don't have the problem we are having with the black strips.
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Post by rhodycampers on Nov 15, 2016 17:00:40 GMT -5
abs- That sounds great to at least not waste the cool air! Thanks, Ken
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Post by lynnmor on Nov 15, 2016 18:58:28 GMT -5
It does sound like you are getting some good answers. If there is a flex at the lines I guess that there is the possibility of cracking the roof membrane. You probably have a TPO roof, they are very thin so be gentle with it. I have used a cheap spray cleaner with bleach from the dollar store and it does take care of mildew.
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Post by rhodycampers on Nov 16, 2016 12:38:54 GMT -5
Hi everyone: Thanks for all of the suggestions thus far. Here's an update: I sent the photos and description to both the dealer and KZ for comment. I just spoke to the dealer and he thought the lines might represent the junction between sections of Lauan, which he says are always 4' x 8.5'. I just measured between the lines and sure enough: the lines are EXACTLY 4 feet between. He thought it could have something to do with the taping material that joins the Lauan sections and offered to send the photos to the factory too. We'll see who gets a response first! I also just tried Chlorox Cleanup and no improvement in removing the black material. The dealer suggested denatured alcohol which I will try later. Finally, I just removed a round A/C vent to see if I could see the space between the duct and the attic space. I'm a little confused as it seemed that I could see the metal top of a vent, then 2 opposite sides but can't feel anything on the opposite sides. We also have a large square vent in the salon which shifts the flow of air from that big unit to the smaller round units. So...not sure if/where I would put the rubber to seal off the attic??? Ken
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abs
Weekender RV’er
Posts: 65
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Post by abs on Nov 16, 2016 13:08:03 GMT -5
My camper is closed up at the camp grounds ( 1 1/2 hrs. away) or I would take some pics.and post them. Maybe next April. Hopefully you get an answer from the factory!
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Post by spreevilla on Nov 17, 2016 14:20:09 GMT -5
very interesting, I got the same thing on the roof of my 2016 Durango 2500.
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Post by spreevilla on Nov 23, 2016 10:27:32 GMT -5
I contacted my KZ dealer and sent me the info: The lines are dirt that forms in a line alone the roof seams that will need to be cleaned. it can be cleaned with bleach and water.
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Post by rhodycampers on Nov 23, 2016 16:05:47 GMT -5
Hi Everyone: I've continued my research and pretty much have it solved to the best of the industry's knowledge. First, as a review, the lines DO represent the junctions where the 4 x 8 feet Lauan boards meet along the roof such that the lines are every 4 feet. The boards meet on top of the aluminum trusses. I saw that the roofing material is called "Superflex" and made by Alpha Systems. I called Alpha Systems and they were extremely helpful in discussing the issue on the phone and confirmed that they supply the material to KZ. The representative confirmed that the company had seen the black blotches before and by testing, know that the blotches represent mold accumulating along the Lauan junction lines. They suspect, based on cutting out sections of roof from RV's that the mold accumulates related to a waterproofing material at the edges of the Lauan boards. However, they don't know how this is actually happening. They suggested the following: Paint on bleach (I used Clorox in a jug), allow to sit for 10 minutes, then remove with a rag or scrubby brush. I did this and it worked PERFECTLY! They said that this procedure will actually keep the mold away for sometime and she also said that the problem does not present any structural issues. Now that I think back, I think the 'raised-ness' of these cross lines has always been there, representing the Lauan junctions over the trusses. I don't think this is a problem but have sent a follow-up note to KZ. Finally, I removed my A/C vent covers inside the trailer to see if cold air was escaping into the attic like someone here suggested but I saw that my duct is the typical rectangular duct that connects the other ducts in the unit and doesn't seem to leave any space for cold air to get into the attic. If you want to see a fun video of installation of the Superflex, check this out: www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeFDO7IVhskSo, it seems the problem is resolved for now and just waiting to hear back from KZ to be sure the slightly raised lines are normal for the Lauan junctions. Thanks for everyone's suggestions, Ken Rhode Island
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abs
Weekender RV’er
Posts: 65
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Post by abs on Nov 23, 2016 20:00:31 GMT -5
Thank you for keeping us updated. I used spray bleach, but never thought of painting the bleach on. I will try it this spring when we get back to the camp grounds. Thanks again, and have a great Thanksgiving.
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Post by spreevilla on Nov 26, 2016 17:04:21 GMT -5
Below is the link to a file: the steps to clean the black lines from Alpha Systems. Attachments:Gray black stains.pdf (303.65 KB)
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Post by joelyn on Feb 8, 2017 19:04:13 GMT -5
I know this is an older thread but have just seen it...the youtube video is great. I have had the same lines on the roof Sportsmen 280bhss 2014. Am going to try some of the ideas everyone has. I don't post much but look at this site often. Thanks, Joe
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