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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 19, 2018 9:58:29 GMT -5
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Post by lynnmor on Apr 19, 2018 10:03:34 GMT -5
Probably vent (overflow) pipes from the fresh water tank. If you pressure fill, where does the water come out when full?
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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 19, 2018 10:44:50 GMT -5
Probably vent (overflow) pipes from the fresh water tank. If you pressure fill, where does the water come out when full? I filled with my house garden hose, so yes, I pressure filled it. When I heard the tank getting full, I shut off the garden hose and that's when I noticed water coming out of the 2 tubes pictured. I opened a faucet in the RV and it kept draining. Ran the pump with the faucet open, kept draining. Nothing seemed to stop the draining until the tank now seems empty again. |
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Post by johnr on Apr 19, 2018 10:49:49 GMT -5
I had that same issue at the end of last season. I found that if I let it overflow, it would siphon out half of the tank of water before stopping. If I stopped it short of overflow, I would be ok.
I did not have a chance to investigate it, so I don't know what the issue is yet. My first guess is that potentially an air vent is clogged which is compressing the tank when the overflow tubes fill with water.
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Post by lynnmor on Apr 19, 2018 11:23:39 GMT -5
If they are vent pipes, they are connected at the top corner of the tank. If the trailer is reasonably level there is no such thing as a siphon.
If they are low point drains, are there valves inside the trailer?
When you said that you used a garden hose, was it screwed into the city water connection, or did you squirt it into a gravity fill port?
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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 19, 2018 12:02:51 GMT -5
If they are vent pipes, they are connected at the top corner of the tank. If the trailer is reasonably level there is no such thing as a siphon. If they are low point drains, are there valves inside the trailer? When you said that you used a garden hose, was it screwed into the city water connection, or did you squirt it into a gravity fill port? I used the garden hose from the city water spigot at my home. I'm going to do another complete inspection again to try to find any valves.
I suspect they are vent pipes, and I might need to fill the tank a little less than completely full. The only way I could tell if the tank was full was hearing a change in the sound of the water going through the hose. You know, that sound of the pressure equalizing between a hose and a tank and the water flow "slowing down"?
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Post by lynnmor on Apr 19, 2018 12:23:14 GMT -5
I wasn’t clear, was the garden hose screwed to the trailer or did you squirt it in a larger open port?
If you connected, and opened a valve to send the water to the tank, you better have a vented tank. It is normal to fill till water flows from the vents.
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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 19, 2018 15:45:12 GMT -5
I wasn’t clear, was the garden hose screwed to the trailer or did you squirt it in a larger open port? If you connected, and opened a valve to send the water to the tank, you better have a vented tank. It is normal to fill till water flows from the vents. The garden hose was screwed into the trailer fresh water intake and I used city pressure by turning on the garden hose spigot. Moments ago, I just tried the exercise again, where I pumped in the bleach solution, then filled up with a garden hose attached to the fresh water intake and using city pressure by turning on the spigot. I could feel air venting out of both of the tubes, so that confirms they were vents. The RV is quite close to level.
I turned off the spigot as soon as water started coming out of the 2 vent tubes. Water is still pouring out those 2 vent tubes as I type, so it continues to siphon the water from the tanks. I opened all faucets; water still siphoning out of the vents. I started the pump; water still siphoning out of the vents; I opened the drain valve; water still siphoning out of the vents. It seems that once water starts draining out of the vent tubes, it is going to continue to pour water out until the tank is nearly empty.
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Post by johnr on Apr 19, 2018 15:54:43 GMT -5
On mine, once the water stopped coming out of the overflow, you could hear air being sucked back into the tank.
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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 19, 2018 17:51:36 GMT -5
I just filled the tank with a totally unknown quantity of fresh water, relying only on the indicator lights showing "full". I have little or no faith in this readings, as they are rarely accurate within 10%-20%. It chaps me that the specs say 110 gallon tank, but it seems you must stop well short of that number so you don't initiate the water all siphoning out of the tank. I also was unable to complete a good sanitization of the system because the solution kept siphoning out.
I found what appears to be the low point drains in the basement on the passenger side. Still baffled on how to keep the vents from siphoning all of the water out of the tanks after filling them.
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Post by lynnmor on Apr 19, 2018 18:38:02 GMT -5
The other pipes, that you believe to be low point drains, do they have valves? Did you look inside to see if there are valves for the set that is draining? The air venting out might be coming from the water heater? In order to set up a siphon, the vent pipes would need to extend to the bottom of the tank, but any I have seen are just attached at the top corner. One thing that I do know for sure is that KZ doesn’t have a clue about water systems. Ask me how I know.
If all else fails, you might need to expose the water tank and see what is going on.
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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 20, 2018 0:40:14 GMT -5
The other pipes, that you believe to be low point drains, do they have valves? Did you look inside to see if there are valves for the set that is draining? The air venting out might be coming from the water heater? In order to set up a siphon, the vent pipes would need to extend to the bottom of the tank, but any I have seen are just attached at the top corner. One thing that I do know for sure is that KZ doesn’t have a clue about water systems. Ask me how I know. If all else fails, you might need to expose the water tank and see what is going on. The tubes I believe to be low point drain tubes do have valves. The two that seem to be siphoning have no valves (at least exposed below the underbelly cover). I didn't remove the underbelly cover to see what's between it and the tank. I did feel air blowing out of them as I filled the tanks with my garden hose attached to the spigot. The city water is capable of moving some volume, enough to force air to blow out, so that tells me they're vents. |
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Post by lynnmor on Apr 20, 2018 4:18:48 GMT -5
It’s to the point that you need to see where those pipes are connected. Water cannot rise up from below the vent pipe level and decide to go out the pipes. It must be just another one, of tens of thousands, that KZ did wrong.
Many units were built with the vents pipes attached at the top corner of the tank and ran straight down and out the bottom. With this type, water would fill normally and stay in the tank as long as you didn’t take it on the road. Every time you went around a curve water would spill (not siphon) out of the vent pipes. When you got to the campground, little or nothing was left. The fix was to route the vents up and out of the trailer well above tank level.
With your system there is something more going on. Don’t think for a minute that is was properly designed or installed. You can expect anything with the way these things are thrown together. Try to get an eye on the pipes and take a photo if you can. Personally, I have spent more quality time laying under the trailer than in the bed.
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Post by Chuck on Apr 20, 2018 11:52:40 GMT -5
Dan
I have to ask because I am not seeing such, what 5th/toy hauler wheel is this, I believe it has to
be a toy hauler when you stated 110 gallon capacity, thus we have a better idea were the systems
are located ...
The other thing you might think about is calling Kz Customer Service an see if they can steer
you to someone that can answer your question ... Of course they may ask if you have talked to
your dealer about this problem an ask that you do that 1st, but you never know ... This almost
sounds like a factory defect from the MFG of the tank ...
Kz dozen't build the fresh an black water tanks, they are from another MFG an shipped in, saying
such I believe they are of the mind that the MFG made's a good product an don't check any tanks
when installed, should they, maybe, but like car MFG they figure what is shipped in is good an
thus save time an money by just installing such ...
I have filled our 67 gallon fresh water tank to were it runs out the overflow, I have no problems,
but that's our G384RLT an has a different tank but I believe it's more than likely along the
same lines as yours with the vents coming out the top ...
Lastly I believe I would try blowing air up the vent tubes an see if there is an type of obstruction,
if there was anything left in the tank when built it may clear it ...
Safe Travels
Chuck
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Post by johnr on Apr 20, 2018 13:04:47 GMT -5
Oooh, that's a good one Chuck. I didn't think about blowing air into the overflows. Thanks for the idea!
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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 30, 2018 0:43:25 GMT -5
Dan I have to ask because I am not seeing such, what 5th/toy hauler wheel is this, I believe it has to be a toy hauler when you stated 110 gallon capacity, thus we have a better idea were the systems are located ... The other thing you might think about is calling Kz Customer Service an see if they can steer you to someone that can answer your question ... Of course they may ask if you have talked to your dealer about this problem an ask that you do that 1st, but you never know ... This almost sounds like a factory defect from the MFG of the tank ... Kz dozen't build the fresh an black water tanks, they are from another MFG an shipped in, saying such I believe they are of the mind that the MFG made's a good product an don't check any tanks when installed, should they, maybe, but like car MFG they figure what is shipped in is good an thus save time an money by just installing such ... I have filled our 67 gallon fresh water tank to were it runs out the overflow, I have no problems, but that's our G384RLT an has a different tank but I believe it's more than likely along the same lines as yours with the vents coming out the top ... Lastly I believe I would try blowing air up the vent tubes an see if there is an type of obstruction, if there was anything left in the tank when built it may clear it ... Safe Travels Ch Sorry Chuck, I was in Moab for the past 9 days. It is a Inferno 3410T, and you are correct, it is a toyhauler. We ran out of water after only 4 days, so I went to town and filled up with freshwater. When it was full and water started running out as expected, I blocked the tubes with the correct size bolts and pipe clamps. I couldn't find the right size valves to shut it off, so that was my bush fix. Pulled it back to camp and ran a few gallons of water through the system, then removed the bolts. No water siphoned out, so I have decided I'll just get a couple of valves and close them when the water runs out, then create a bit of a suction in camp before opening them. I have to remember to do so; I don't want to collapse the tank! |
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Post by lynnmor on Apr 30, 2018 6:22:52 GMT -5
so I have decided I'll just get a couple of valves and close them when the water runs out, then create a bit of a suction in camp before opening them. I have to remember to do so; I don't want to collapse the tank! Even worse, if you pressure fill the tank and forget to open the valves, serious structural damage can happen. It is better to route those vents outside to a point higher than water level. If you do have a true siphon, then the vents are not connected to the tank at the top, that needs to be fixed. |
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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 30, 2018 8:10:38 GMT -5
so I have decided I'll just get a couple of valves and close them when the water runs out, then create a bit of a suction in camp before opening them. I have to remember to do so; I don't want to collapse the tank! Even worse, if you pressure fill the tank and forget to open the valves, serious structural damage can happen. It is better to route those vents outside to a point higher than water level. If you do have a true siphon, then the vents are not connected to the tank at the top, that needs to be fixed. I need to remove the undercarriage cover to figure out a grey water leak also, so I'll also get a look at the configuration of the freshwater "vents". I'll take some pics and post them. |
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Post by joecamper on Apr 30, 2018 17:33:02 GMT -5
I had one of the KZ 5th wheels that had the siphoning issue. It took my local dealer 2 KZ recommended fixes to cure the problem. Is your's still under warranty? If so, let your dealer and KZ come up with a fix. If not, your fix is ok as long as you always remember to remove the bolts when filling the tank. Good luck either way!
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Post by Denver Dan on Apr 30, 2018 21:44:43 GMT -5
I had one of the KZ 5th wheels that had the siphoning issue. It took my local dealer 2 KZ recommended fixes to cure the problem. Is your's still under warranty? If so, let your dealer and KZ come up with a fix. If not, your fix is ok as long as you always remember to remove the bolts when filling the tank. Good luck either way! It's a 2012 and I am the 3rd owner. I get to fix this myself. |
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