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Post by greydog on Mar 28, 2018 10:00:00 GMT -5
Picked up our 2018 Spree yesterday from the dealer in Calgary (Bucars). We loved the trailer from the outset (we had been looking at trailers for months) and are anxious to start travelling and camping in it. We are less pleased with the dealer and can only hope they are more of an asset than they appear to be.
The trailer is compact and well appointed. Build quality appears to be good. Tons of storage, nice kitchen, nice bath. Flooring, panelling, appliances, are all just what we wanted. We are looking forward to years of enjoyment of this trailer.
The Andersen hitch:
I chose this hitch because I liked the simplicity of the design and the compactness. Installation is simplicity itself and I think the hitch will work well. The 250 mile tow home was made in conditions which were a real test and some shortcomings were revealed. These were anticipated and I already had plans to make some changes. Roads up here are quite rough this time of year with frost heaving the prevalent issue. In addition, 150 miles of the trip were made with a crosswind of 20 to 35 mph. This was followed by about sixty into a stiff headwind with the balance through rain on the typical rough roads. Once I had the hitch dialled in, it controlled sway and porpoising very well.
The design's compactness is both a blessing and a curse. The blessing is the resultant shorter overall length of the trailer/ tow vehicle combination. The curse is the the trailer is coupled very close to the tow vehicle and clearance in a tight turn is minimal. Not a real issue so far but a bit nerve wracking. The saddle brackets which attach to the trailer are the epitome of half-assed design and I anticipated having to make some changes in order to ensure that the brackets will stay put. Though their position on the trailer tongue did not change, the orientation did change with the brackets tipping so the bottom moved closer to the hitch. This reduces chain tension. I will be altering the brackets to eliminate this problem after which I anticipate smooth sailing.
My tow vehicle is a 2017 Ram 3500 Diesel which easily handles the relatively light, compact trailer. Mileage was right at 12 mpg (US) which was OK given the winds we were dealing with. Truck and camper were tested by the rough roads. I'll try and post a bit more as I get more time with the trailer and hitch. Right now I have to try and get it parked. Still dealing with a lot of snow. GD
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Post by lynnmor on Mar 28, 2018 11:17:56 GMT -5
I am currently arguing with a Andersen advocate on another forum. In my opinion, it is a halfwit design because of the ridiculous bracket design, and the idea of those chains pulling against the coupler latch. Some models of couplers are not to be used with that hitch, and the others would still take the loads just the same. With your heavy truck, I would do without before using something that beats the heck out of the coupler latch.
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Post by greydog on Mar 28, 2018 12:19:01 GMT -5
I am well aware of the load on the coupler and am not wild about it but will withhold judgement for the time being. The brackets are an issue and I could design a better one during my afternoon nap (and have) but I'll mess with some changes and may end up fabricating new brackets altogether. This shouldn't have to be done but there it is. The hitch does work and very well too. However, while it is touted as being greaseless, it should not be. Although the ball does turn with the trailer, it is not static in relation to the coupler as it still pivots up and down and side to side as the truck and trailer negotiate roads which are less than smooth so lubrication is still a good idea. It may well be possible to redirect the stress imparted by the chains but the this remains to be seen. The use of the tapered ball mount as the sway damping mechanism is clever and it works well. The use of the chains to produce a semi-rigid connection and weight distribution is slightly less so but it does appear to accomplish the task.
If these trailers used the clamshell type of coupler as is used on my flat deck trailer, this would not be an issue since this coupler can handle loads in all directions. Couplers which cannot are a poor coupler IMO.
A bit more about the trailer: While mostly pleased with build quality, I would prefer to see caulking on the roof which does not look like it was done by a trained chimp. This is, of course, an issue with virtually every RV I have seen. Still, we all work past these things and, as long as it doesn't leak, it's all good. The inside fit and finish is great. The trailer pulls well and everything stayed put during what was a pretty rough "shakedown" cruise. Today, it gets levelled up and my wife starts stocking it for the season. GD
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Post by greydog on Mar 29, 2018 10:17:04 GMT -5
As we go through the trailer more thoroughly, we find all the little things which one is likely to find on any RV. Where finish is not visible, there isn't any. Saw cuts are rough. There are some gaps which will be difficult to fix. Where a corner bracket is used, you would think they would remember to put the screw in! We'll use up a can of Varathane sealing unfinished surfaces to reduce swelling of panels from moisture. We'll also do some calking in the shower before it gets used. I was able to gain at least 1/4 turn on virtually every drain connection in the trailer (the bathroom sink drain was leaking). At the end of the month, I plan to pull it to Tacoma (about a 500 mile trip) so it will get a real test. Today, I'll modify the brackets for the hitch. GD
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Post by Chuck on Mar 30, 2018 10:26:55 GMT -5
Well greydog Which way are you coming to Tacoma, we live off I-5 at exit 88, 40 miles south of Tacoma, send us a PM it your going to be driving by, always nice to meet Kz owners  Safe travels Chuck |
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Post by jetintx on Apr 1, 2018 6:32:45 GMT -5
Greydog: I got my 261RK last Tuesday and its doing great so far, although the heater duct in the bedroom has no air flow when running the furnace. Does yours??
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Post by greydog on Apr 1, 2018 11:20:12 GMT -5
Yes, all of my ducts are working OK. Furnace warms the trailer nicely at an outside temp of 16F. I'm hoping not to have to do that too often. I figure the main point of a "travel" trailer is to be able to get away from the cold! Not a great April for us this year, if the forecasts are to be believed. GD
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Post by jetintx on Apr 7, 2018 8:32:08 GMT -5
well, I opened the belly panel and found the duct to the bedroom was not connected. re-routed and connected. also found DVD player "video" cable broken and changed that.
I can fix these things quicker and better than the service dept. going to Mt Elbert in June. will see how it holds up.
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Post by greydog on May 2, 2018 22:36:04 GMT -5
Recently got home from the first trip with the s251RK hitched up to the Ram 3500 with the Anderson hitch set-up. This was round trip of about 750 miles from Cranbrook B.C. to Chehalis, Washington. Weather was good. Road conditions were also mostly good. We travelled on Interstate 90 and Hwy 12 through White Pass. Plenty of hills, some rough roads, and some curvy.
The hitch worked OK but could be run a little tighter. The receiver on the truck is a 2 1/2 inch while the hitch is a 2" which means I have to use an adaptor sleeve. There is enough slop in this to allow a little bit of sway under some conditions. I have a 2 1/2 in Andersen hitch and will switch the WD parts over to this in the future since it fits tight in the receiver. I don't really need a lot in the way of weight distribution which is why I ran the chains a little less tight than I maybe should have. I have modified the saddle brackets by welding a piece of square tubing onto the bracket to prevent the bracket from being pulled forward and out of alignment with the plate. This worked well. I grease the ball since there is still some up and down movement on the ball. The hitch is quick and easy to mount and set up. Porpoising is well controlled, sway seems well controlled but I will be able to judge this better when I switch to the 2 1/2 inch ball mount. All in all, the hitch is satisfactory in performance.
The truck, of course, handles this relatively light trailer with ease and the average over the trip was just over 12 mpg. I cruised at 70 on the interstate and at the legal limit on all other roads. I used cruise control a lot but can get better mileage if I eschew the cruise control.
The trailer pulled well and tracked well. Everything stayed put inside over the course of the trip. We were not heavily loaded but were carrying some weight in rifles and ammunition (attending a silhouette match at Pe Ell)and full water tank. Everything worked but there were some issues.
First, the side of the kitchen counter cabinet popped loose. The staples popped out. Can't guess at the cause; maybe the rough roads through White Pass.
The second issue is more dealer-related than manufacturer. At some point prior to delivery, one of the shower doors must have shattered with the result that a bunch of glass ended up in the furnace duct work. When I ran the furnace, chunks of glass were blown onto the bedroom floor at the foot of the bed. I found this glass with my foot (ouch!). I carry band-aids and was able to put them to use. The dealer will be cleaning out the ducts.
Prior to the trip, we had re-calked around the shower since it appeared to have been done by a somewhat challenged first grader. We had also pounded down staples which were standing a little proud in the carpeting.
The memory foam mattress is way short of being luxurious but I don't mind it. I screwed the panel back on the kitchen cabinet and covered the screws with a piece of corner moulding.
All in all, I'm pretty pleased with the performance of both truck and trailer but I do feel there is definitely room for improvement in the fit and finish of the trailer. This is not touted as an econo-unit but, in many respects, it is built that way. We'll see what we find with more miles and more time in it. GD
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Post by Chuck on May 5, 2018 10:23:48 GMT -5
Guzzz greydo You were only about 10 miles away from us when in Chehalis, Washington we live in Rochester exit 88 off of I-5 ... So what camp grounds di you stay at while in Chehalis ? To bad about the glass an the staples, your would have thought the dealer would have taken more care when do their PDI an cleaning before putting it on the lot ... But like more than one dealer it's get it clean an looking good an let the customer do the rest, it coat time an money for one of their worker bees to do the job Ugh  Safe Travels Chuck |
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Post by myredracer on May 9, 2018 14:17:46 GMT -5
Greydog: I got my 261RK last Tuesday and its doing great so far, although the heater duct in the bedroom has no air flow when running the furnace. Does yours?? If it's like our 262RKS (same as the 261), the duct to the bedroom is 2" dia. I replaced ours with a 4" dia. and works great. The 2" duct had an excessive amount of overall length stuffed under the shower which added to the flow restriction. I found a lot of holes in the floor which I sealed up. The worst was a large hole of about 8"x8" hacked in the subfloor next to the furnace which would draw return air back into the furnace from the underbelly space. I uses some plywood to seal that opening. Not sure of your year but for 2014, KZ ran the duct to the kitchen under the floor and did not insulate the duct. I pulled the duct out and replaced it with a semi-rigid aluminum duct with smoother wall and also insulated and fished it back under the floor (not an easy job!). This increased the air flow quite a bit and it's noticeably warmer. FWIW, I also pulled out the 2" duct to the bathroom grille which was under the sink. The duct ran all the way under the shower and also had an excessive length. I put the grill on the wall beside the toilet and the duct got reduced to only about 2' long. These changes improved the furnace flow and output a LOT. Gil, Deb and Dougal the Springer Spaniel 2014 KZ Spree 262RKS 2009 F250 |
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Post by myredracer on May 9, 2018 14:29:15 GMT -5
The Andersen hitch: I chose this hitch because I liked the simplicity of the design and the compactness. I also believe the Anderson WDH to be a silly design and can say that from an engineer's point of view. The general consensus out there from knowledgeable WDH people is that the Anderson hitch is only good up to around 600 lbs of actual tongue weight and that's with 1/2T trucks. You don't say what your actual tongue wt. is but would estimate it to be 900-1,000 lbs. If towing with a 1 ton truck, that hitch is next to useless IMO and can give a false sense of it working great. I'd get a "real" WDH and use some sway control, preferably of the built-in type and not add-on friction bars. The Spree TTs can have an above average tongue weight. Ours is nearly 15% (of gross trailer wt.) while average is in the 12-13% range. I chose the Reese DC because of it's pro-active self-centering design (29'TT with 6800 lb GVWR towed by a 3/4T) and have zero sway. Going to a scale would be a good thing to do to find out exactly where you are on weights and can also determine actual wt. transferred back onto steer axles. Gil, Deb and Dougal the Springer Spaniel 2014 KZ Spree 262RKS 2009 F250 |
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Post by greydog on May 9, 2018 20:00:42 GMT -5
There are aspects of the Andersen design which are somewhat questionable and I do think there are some changes which might be beneficial. As I work more with the hitch, I will probably make some changes to redirect some of the force. I have already addressed the tendency of the saddle brackets to tip out of alignment and that has been corrected. In order for the anti-sway to work well the chains have to be loaded pretty heavily and this increases the load on the latch. I would prefer not to have to add complexity but it may be unavoidable. More travel will tell me more. GD
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Post by jetintx on Oct 12, 2018 10:08:38 GMT -5
I made it to Mt Elbert towing the trailer. No problems. Sways a bit in high winds on the road. Boondocking at the park at Twin Lakes CO. was great! I do have one question...what is the capacity of the grey tanks? Tech data list states 60 gal grey. This Spree 251rks has 2 grey tanks. I think it would be 30 each. Is this correct?
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Post by greydog on Oct 14, 2018 20:03:33 GMT -5
That is correct. Each and all of the major systems on our Spree have functioned very well. Construction issues are easily corrected as they show up. Little annoyances are just that; little. These trilers are a bit tall which may account for the sway. In our case, the Andersen hitch is contributory since I have come to regard it as being imperfect at best. An inexpensive hitch from Costco works at least as well for half the cost.
We have towed our Spree for about 11,000 miles so far and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Not thrilled with our dealer but the trailer is fine.
We had one mishap which was not really any fault of the trailer. I had to hit the brakes real hard when a car pulled out in front of me (I have more guys do this over the past few months than in the previous fifty+ years; must be the trailer). The refrigerator door came open and we ended up with a bunch of stuff rolling around in the trailer. I had, undoubtedly, failed to latch the door properly. I am going to install a safety lock to secure the door better. We'll be travelling from Idaho to Las Vegas and then accross the country to North Carolina and down to Florida this winter. By the time we are done, we should have a pretty good handle on this RV towing stuff. GD
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Post by greydog on Dec 10, 2018 21:13:35 GMT -5
Some mior annoyances so far but nothing major. Since were travelling through Idaho Falls, I stopped at Andersen's to bitch about the hitch. They replaced the friction sleeve while I waited (10 minutes) and gave me a spare. Still not totally thrilled with the performance but it's coming along.
The trailer has worked well though the wheel bearing loosened on both axels during the first half of the trip. Outside lights quit which I suspect is related to the awnng control. This was replaced under recall and I wonder if I'd have been better off if it had been left alone. I noticed the bottom of the cupboard over the head of the bed was sagging. This turned out to be becuse it was supported by a single staple in the wall which had turned out to be not up to the task. An easy repair but one which should not have to be done. All in all, the trailer is meeting our requirements if not our expectations. GD
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